Shop addition: New Grinder

Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Messages
3,911
Well, I think the time has come for me to take the next step. I'm looking into getting a HT oven. The usual limitations apply... no space, limiited to 110V power, and a wife who constantly worries that I will burn the house down. Right now, I'm considering the Paragon Xpress-KM-14 and the EvenHeat KH 414. The main thing that concerns me about this is trying to do the quench in a crowded garage, and the sure and certain knowledge that my wife will complain about the smell and worry about the fire hazard if I do the quench indoors. The other problem I have is only having one 15A outlet outdoors that I could use for both the oven and whatever I'll be using to keep the quench oil at 130 degrees.

I guess everything is more challenging when you work, as I do, in "space available" ;)

- Greg
 
Last edited:
You need to think about an efficient exhaust system too, Greg. Once you plunge that red hot blade into the quench you are going to get some flame and a LOT of smoke. I started out renting an old concrete building to get away from the "space available" issue, think I paid around $200. a month. Now I've got a 25 by 20 foot garage. You'll get there, my friend.

Dave
 
I stopped doing my own heat treat a couple of year back and do not miss it. I did some carbon steel the other day just to meet a short Christmas deadline. I think if you are doing carbon steel heating to 1500f 110v will be ok, for stainless going to nearly 2000, it really takes too long. As long as you are using a good quench oil I dont think smoke and flame are much of an issue, with other oils it can be quite exciting. I use a camp stove to heat the quench oil and once it is at temp it does not cool off very quickly, I just make sure its at temp a little before I take the blades out.
 
Well, I think the time has come for me to take the next step. I'm looking into getting a HT oven. The usual limitations apply... no space, limiited to 110V power, and a wife who constantly worries that I will burn the house down. Right now, I'm considering the Paragon Xpress-KM-14 and the EvenHeat KH 414. The main thing that concerns me about this is trying to do the quench in a crowded garage, and the sure and certain knowledge that my wife will complain about the smell and worry about the fire hazard if I do the quench indoors. The other problem I have is only having one 15A outlet outdoors that I could use for both the oven and whatever I'll be using to keep the quench oil at 130 degrees.

I guess everything is more challenging when you work, as I do, in "space available" ;)

- Greg

Greg,

If you need to heat your quench, put a piece of mild stock in your kiln/oven when you turn it on to preheat and then take it out before you put your blade in and put it in the quench tank. You can do this a few times. It will warm the quench oil up in no time.

I cant help with your choice of ovens as we only run 240v over here. Good luck with it!

Matt
 
Last edited:
Or for mono-steels you can use A2 and quit worrying about the oil quench once you have an oven.
 
Or for mono-steels you can use A2 and quit worrying about the oil quench once you have an oven.
Thats how you do it. Use A-2, or Good ol D-2 and you are surrounded by your quench medium. No smoke, no worries. And I highly reccomend the Paragon.
 
If you go with the Paragon 110v, remember that it draws 13 amps, probably more on ramp-up. It will almost certainly pop your 15 amp breaker when it kicks on, and you will have trouble if anything else is running off that circuit. On the very adamant advice of a master electrician, I had an extra 20-amp circuit wired into my shop with only one outlet... specifically for my Paragon.*

I don't want to be discouraging, but have you run the numbers on the kiln, wiring, tool wrap and/or quenchant, racks, a steel table to put it on, tongs, gloves, UV-protective eyeshields (not sunglasses ;)) and so forth? You have to make a heckuva lotta knives to come out ahead financially, compared to sending blades off to Peters'.

*I can almost promise someone will say "Bah, I've been running mine off an extension cord on a 15-amp circuit for years while microwaving my lunch off the same cord, no problem." And I imagine people have gotten away with that. Then again, every now and then that sort of thing will burn your house down...
 
I made a really fat extension cord for 220v and plugged mine into the dryer outlet. My wife hates me, but other than that it works great!
If you're going with 110v I would recommend getting the smallest oven you can get away with.
 
i would say try it if your breaker pops push it back in and dont run anything while you over is heating up because yes it is using a a lot more amp while ramping also a lot of times in the garage you will have two out lets that run off of two diff breakers because one is usually for a second fridge so this may not be a problem just run off of both outlets. also some garage doors are a outlet plug in so you might have a out let above the garage dorr opener which will also run of a diff breaker hope this helps with the power problem.

now for the fire hazard i am not going to tell you its not a hazard but you can get an extingusher and put it right there for her sake and i have done a couple of knives (around 20) in motor oil and never had a problem yes it catches on fire some times but usually goes out in seconds and is never really big.

now for the smell if you are using canola oil or vegtable oil it should not smell that bad and if you only do one knife at a time and keep the garage door open or open it after the smell will dissapate very quickly
 
Well, yeah... the grinder... (*sigh*)... then people would expect me to make good knives. I'm not sure I need that much pressure ;)
 
Thats how you do it. Use A-2, or Good ol D-2 and you are surrounded by your quench medium. No smoke, no worries. And I highly reccomend the Paragon.

Yes, but with D-2 you really want cryo so you're into dry ice or a dewar and LN. A-2 is less demanding there.
 
I'm with Patrice. It's pretty easy to send knives out for heat treating, but I don't know of anyone that sends them out for grinding :D Seems like a grinder might be kind of important? I can't imagine making enough knives with just files to justify the cost of an oven personally.
 
Patrice Lemée;10281866 said:
Say it ain't so Greg. You need a GRINDER first! :(

If I had to choose between my grinders or heat treat oven, my oven would be gone in a heartbeat.
 
Jiminy crickets, I forgot you don't have a decent grinder. With all due respect, Greg, what the heck are you thinking?

On the other hand... for less than the cost of the Paragon, you could get a Sugar Creek oven (I've heard good things about them) and a Grizzly 2x72.
 
Well you seem to like using hand tools to shape your knives so I wont jump on the GRINDER band wagon, but what about setting you oven up on a cart that you can just roll outside, that way you wouldn't have to worry about the wife getting upset about the fire and smoke possibilities. If possible go 220 and tap into that drier like Jason suggests, just don't do it when the wife wants to do the laundry or that could be another ball of wax:eek:
 
I guess I don't see the heirarchy of tools the way others do. Unky seems to have viewed into my brain (scary)... I have a way of grinding and shaping today, crude though it may be. I don't really have a way of doing proper HT today. The argument about never being able to make my money back is moot, since I won't be making money with my knives at any rate. BTW, I do have a 20A outlet that I had installed for my welder, so no problem tripping breakers (unless I use the outside outlet).

Still, you all have given me much to think about. I need to chew on it for a while. I don't want to have to drag the equipment outside every time I want to use it because the weather here is so prone to being wet.

Sometimes I really feel stuck by my current circumstances.
 
I am sorry if my comment was viewed as negative. An oven will produce nothing new as far as knife quality. Of course it is nice to have eventually but I really like Greg's unorthodox way of thinking and I'd love to see his projects taken to the degree of quality they deserve.
 
Good point, Patrice. It would be nice to be able to do things like hollow grinds properly. I'll give the grinder some serious thought. I still have two weeks before the funds arrive to make either purchase.

- Greg
 
Greg,
You do fantastic work with limited tools and it is amazing. That being said, I do believe that stepping up to a grinder will make your work better and faster. We would all like to see more of your work and a grinder would allow that. As far as an oven, look around at pottery kilns and such. They are usually really cheap on the second hand market, and can be converted to a great HT oven. There was a post recently about it. I just picked one up for $25 at a garage sale. It took me months to save up enough for a grinder, and I am still putting it together one piece at a time (but it does run, just upgrades now). Good luck on your decision.
Dan
 
Back
Top