Short End Of The Spear

dartanyon

dartanyon

Joined
May 10, 2002
Messages
705
Can I please have some input on attaching a knife to the end of a stick to make a short spear. Some input on binding techniques and possibly an ideal branch shape.
The idea of using our knives as a spear is a bit daunting due to making the perfect device for snapping the blade so this thread may get into softer metals or even spring steel?
Am looking forward to some helpful input :)
 
Are you looking to use the spear for big stuff or fish and small game? That would be helpful to know.

Cold Steel has the bushman that has the hollow handle that can be used to fit a shaft to. The USAF Survival knives had lacing holes in the guard for lashing to a pole.

For your basic knife I would lash the handle along side the shaft. Depending on the handle/guard shape you might think of flattening one side of the shaft or notching it to provide a stop against which the knife can butt against to limit slippage and make a tighter connection.

Just a few quick thoughts. A good, thick, fire hardened green stick would allow for a little springiness that would absorb some of the impacts, thereby takeing some strain off the knife. Depending on what you are skewring, a fire hardened sharp tip might be your best bet.

I could be wrong, so see what others have to say. That's just my way of thinking on the subject.
 
You better have your Kevlar on. I suspect you are about to be flamed for risking your knife in a survival situation, but not by me. :rolleyes:
 
Craig_PHX said:
You better have your Kevlar on. I suspect you are about to be flamed for risking your knife in a survival situation, but not by me. :rolleyes:
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What? He's only carrying one knife! That's not right! :D

Seriously, I too would think twice, or even thrice about risking your knife on the end of a stick. Not to say it wouldn't have it's use. It was thought enough of for the Air Force had the lashing holes put on their survival knife. There just may be better alternatives. Still, better to know how to do it and not than to need to and not be able too.
 
Interested in spears? Wait until you see the TOPS Hoffman Harpoon - a multi-use cutting tool that's great for a spearhead. Not out yet but close.
 
Generally, the types of knives used for that class of use in general should be able to take those impacts without gross damage, assuming you are not talking about lashing a small utility knife to a pole.

Lashings are usually done by splitting the pole for flint tips, but this doesn't tend to work well on something as big as a knife. Some knives lash very well due to the shape of the handle, the sides should be rather flat and contoured vertically.

Carve the side of the stick flat and make notches on the other side to trap the cord and if possible make pitch glue and use it as well on the other side to make a more solid binding, do the wrap as tight as possible.

You can use the same technique to extend the chopping ability of knives, Evolute has posted about this in detail.

-Cliff
 
well, for lashing, i'd want the knife (pointy thing) to be inline with the shaft...

so if you put your pint thing in line with your shaft, how does it stay? you could use thinner sticks, say at leat 3, perhaps 5 or 7 "wrapped" around both the full handle of the pointy thing and a substantial portion of the shaft (spear) with slight notches in the shaft to secure best as possible. if the pointy thing has a hole in the butt end, use that to also secure to shaft to avoid slippage.

now, i say point thing, because i'd rather make something REALLY sharp and pointy out of anything but my knife. one could make several 1-2 foot long mini spikes (think vampire killing buffy style) out of the hardest wood you can find, harden in fire if possible. that's tough stuff... have a have with that little arrangement of sticks as above on the end. but don't terribly secure the pointy bit to the shaft... it's a slip in, not unlike an atlatl. potentially, if you're going after game, you throw, you hit, the shaft fall off, prey is wounded and runs off, you grab shaft (of course you have two, right?) reload a point, keep going.

for fish or other game like frogs/etc, just make a trident with three little wood points.

don't throw your knives in the woods! (they have a bad habit of coming back).

bladite
 
yep I agree in essence with Bladite bloke; use your knife to make a spear. FEncing wire can be sued for a very very good fishing spear. If you're making a pig-killing spear then sure use some spring steel or anything.
Branches? - fishing spears made in Torres strait are made using a roughly 3.5 metre piece of bambooo with about 2cm diameter at the butt end (the end you hold), so the diameter at the pointy end where you shove in the wire is very small.
As for a land spear, I don't know, but do a google on some koori spears used for killing wallabies. I remember that the point/blade isn't very big at all; a broken piece of glass was popular with Northern Territory indiginous ppl earlier last century- the key is to have a long spear that can be thrown with power; the point should be light so as not to cause the spear to be overbalanced. hope that helps.
W
 
Tops is introducing a small fixed blade knife called a harpoon that is intended as a secondary to your main carry blade but with the purpose of being attached to a spear, The knife is shaped the same as a harpoon. You can see it on Doug Ritters website. For lashing it to a pole, you might study some pictures of how Native Americans lashed axe heads and spears but keep in mind also that there comes a point where what you have done is good enough. Dont over complicate your task. It can come down to time managment in a survival situation, not spending too much time on any one job.
 
My suggestion would be to actually use the knife for it's intended purpose ( as a tool ) and whittle your spear point and then fire harden it. Sure a knife lashed to a pole looks cool but in the end it's only as strong as the lashing material. If I really had to jab something hard I would rely upon a sharpened fire hardened spear before I would a knife lashed to a pole.
 
Lotus1972 has a very smart suggestion in my experience.

The problem with using a knife as a spear point isn't preventing it from falling off on the stab--but from falling off on the return.

People untrained in thrusting spears tend to wholly underestimate the ease and power of this weapon. The knife itself can pass entirely through the animal with ease: and when you pull back with force--which you'll almost need to--your knife could wind up inside the body to the animal.

You won't really have this problem with a sharpened and fire-hardened long stick. This will provide you all the thrusting power without much of the worry.

Try to find a 1-1/4" cross-diameter shaft that has some 1/4" - 1/2" branches at one end. Cut off these branches, but leave some of the wood on the shaft: you want an "arrest" on the spear. Otherwise, an animal could skewer itself and come up so far on the shaft that you lose it. The "fork" of branches a little behind the base of the point will prevent this. For a cleaner example of what I mean, take a look at Cold Steel's boar spear: you can see the outriders on the side. This is the arrest, and what you want on your shaft.

In selecting your shaft, be sure to hold it at one end and let the far end drop on a solid ground surface. Listen for any rattling, buzzing, or oscillating vibrations: this tells you there's a flaw in the grain, and that this shaft is likely to shatter or crack on a thrust.

If the shaft bounces with a nice, clean sound and minimal vibration--that's your shaft! Cut and sharpen away!

Have fun, and good luck.
 
After an animal has been caught in a snare, maybe something the size of a deer, you need a knife lashed to the end of the spear to dispatch it, I wouldnt want to do that with just a pointy stick. I think dartanyon has a valid question and lotus1972, you shouldnt reduce it to wanting to look cool, cant you give your advice without being insulting?
 
Use your knife to make a spear. If you have to make a spear you will certainbly need your knife again. A fire hardened point can be very effective on its own.

If you really want a spearhead that can double as a knife, then get a Cold Steel Mini-bushman. They make a very effective spear. The Large Bushman is popular as well but I prefer the small one. Mac

3dayspear1ot.jpg
 
Bladite said:
don't throw your knives in the woods! (they have a bad habit of coming back).

bladite
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... or not, as the case may be. :D

(Good advice. For that matter, a steel frogging gig weighs little and takes up hardly any space. That plus a pole and the frogs - and fish - are in a world of hurt.)

(And stickbobby, good on you! :thumbup: )
 
stickbobby said:
After an animal has been caught in a snare, maybe something the size of a deer, you need a knife lashed to the end of the spear to dispatch it, I wouldnt want to do that with just a pointy stick. I think dartanyon has a valid question and lotus1972, you shouldnt reduce it to wanting to look cool, cant you give your advice without being insulting?
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I'm sorry. I did not mean to be insulting. Though I still see no practical use for a large animal like a deer use a spear or thicker pice of hardwood as a club. It's cleaner and and more human to the animal and if you save pelts heads or whatever it preserves a hide.
 
Food is typically way down the list of survival priorities, as has been discussed here many times.

Having said that:

lotus1972 said:
. . . Though I still see no practical use for a large animal like a deer
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A deer supplies food, hide for clothing, organs for containers, cordage, and bone for tools. In a long-term survival scenario, all of these are of great value.

Taking a large animal of course creates more risk of injury to the hunter.

use a spear or thicker pice of hardwood as a club. It's cleaner and and more human to the animal and if you save pelts heads or whatever it preserves a hide.
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Beating in a large animal's head with a club is probably not more humane than spearing it in a vital area, and spearing does less damage to the potentially valuable parts of the animal AND makes the kill with less risk of injury to the hunter.

All of this begs the question of whether the hunter has the skills to be in a position to accomplish anything with a spear - of any kind - OR a club.

And I too would be very nervious about my knife running off in the woods with Bambie.
{or is it Bambi?}
 
Another concern is that many times, it helps to have more than one spear.

It's much easier to sharpen 2-3 spears and burn the ends than to find a way to secure more than one knife to the shaft.
 
I have been making some little darts out of Ti for my PSKs. These are small and light enough to be able to keep a few with me at any one time. The main purpose would be small game and fish.

dart1.jpg


For the larger stuff, I don't think you could beat the Hoffman Harpoon.

harpoon.jpg


--Carl
 
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