Short End Of The Spear

[pricecw]

They haven't fixed it as of the last Blade either. I am looking forward to this one to play with and learn from. I really like to play with the spears, but don't think I would ever spear anything larger than a grouse (well maybe a great big cardboard box )

--Carl

 

[Codger_64]

...I must say that throwing a spear at a large deer sized animal is folly at best.
And that if you ever stick a critter with one, don't expect it to lay down and die.
You will be in for a fight and the spearing will just be the beginning of it.
The hunting spears of old had a crossbar on them to prevent the critter from running up the spear and getting the hunter.

Nope. Been there done that. A properly placed spear works just fine on deer sized animals. Now, I wouldn't want to go after a grizz or moose roast with one, but deer are smaller, more fragile, and easier to kill than most non-hunters think. And a 150# deer reduces just fine to a 75# pack (they provide their own pack). And 75# of meat, after a few day's feasting and drying, makes about 10-15# of dried meat. Might do one person for a week, several people can scarf one in a few days.

Deer, wild boars, and other large game animals are taken all the time by hunters with nothing more than a knife, and have been for thousands of years. A spear is an improvement over the knife, not only for safety of the hunter, but to extend his reach. Most spear chuckkers did not/do not hang on to the spear and "poke" with it, but throw it either by hand or with an atlatl.

Now, unpracticed city slickers running through the woods with a spear or a knife is a folly at best!

Codger

 

[Ebbtide]

A spear made with a knife blade or a spear made for an atatal?
2 different animals eh?

Boar with a knife (or spearknife) and no dogs?
Please post footage

I've personally seen a deer take 2 12 gauge slugs and trot along. Granted they weren't well placed shots but that poor critter took along time to die. In fact he got his throat slit.
And no it wasn't me

Hunting is one thing a RLSS (Real Life Survival Situation) is another.
I thought we were talking field expedient spears made with knives ?
But then again I'm just a city kid that avoids RLSS's at all costs

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Deer, wild boars, and other large game animals are taken all the time by hunters with nothing more than a knife, and have been for thousands of years.

Inuit still do it with spears on fairly large animals, much bigger than deer, there was a documentary on it a short while ago, no dogs used in the hunt, though they provided transportation. I would assume there are other groups still fairly native and man didn't always have dogs, not did every culture adopt them eventually and use them for hunting.

The problem with most of these types of activies for survival situations is the probability of actually doing enough damage to the animal so that you can find it, vs losing your knife or spear head. How many people can be accurate enough, powerful enough and know enough about tracking to actually make this a productive choice.

The same goes in general of course for adapting recreational skills to high stress emergency situations. Even things that you can do very well with calm might be exceptionally different when strained. I have seen very knowledgable people become useless and even detrimental and I have seen people with little knowledge save the day simply because they calmed down and did something productive.

Big difference in pig sizes though, Steve Erwin for example catches wild pigs on tv on a regular basis bare handed so he would have no problem killing them with a knife assuming you can run them down, so generally without dogs you would want someone to run it towards you. Of course what he catches are not the monsters that run several hundred pounds that others hunt.

What is the life (hunt) expectancy of a hog dog anyway? Could you really risk that in a an actual survival situation?

-Cliff

 

[coote]

I carry my spear with me quite a bit as I wander around the hills.... generally when I am checking my traps. As mentioned in an earlier post, my current spear has a Cold Steel Bushman for a blade.

All sorts of spears and spearheads will work, but some are better suited to certain circumstances. If all I had was a fire-hardened point on a stick, I feel confident that I could learn to use it to my advantage.

I just love Terrill's "Hoffman Harpoon". It would be a neat little tool to have with me in the bush. It looks like it is no trouble to carry, and it could do a variety of jobs. Because of its shape, it is better suited than many knives for lashing to a stick to make a spear. It would make a perfectly adequate thrusting spear to use on a variety of game. I wouldn't be one to hunt by throwing a spear, but sometimes this might be the appropriate thing to do if close enough to the quarry. But the Hoffman would be well suited to finishing off a big animal in a trap, or skewering an animal just out of reach up a tree or in a den.

Spearheads like Carl's beautiful forged ones are probably the ultimate for strength, reliability and killing potential. Nice smooth lines and sturdy construction with two deadly edges.

Spears with "stopper" protrusions do have their place. If you are faced with a charging boar, lion or bear you don't want the animal to slide right down your spear to make intimate contact with your flesh. But for the situations in which I generally hunt, I would not choose to have these stoppers. They are likely to catch up in the surrounding bushes and slow you down too much. They may also catch on the animal thus making it difficult to withdraw the spear for another thrust. I recall reading an article in an "Outdoor Life" (many years ago) about a dude who hunted South American "Tigres" with a spear. This would be a time where you wanted some decent stoppers on your spear. He would often wait for the the cat to spring at him, and he would then point the spear at it.... sometimes with the base of the spear planted firmly on the ground. I think his name was something like Sasha Siemel.

I like my Bushman spear. I have cut down the knife and the handle to make it a bit shorter and more manageable.... and it sits nicely in the sheath now. The knife is carried in my backpack (or on my belt), and the spear shaft is a relatively innocent looking walking stick in my hand. Sometimes I trap where it isn't appropriate to carry a rifle, so I like to have the spear for anything big or difficult that I may encounter. And sometimes there are members of the public in the same area. Unfortunately some of these bush-wandering members of the public may not be all that open-minded about hunting, so having just a walking stick in my hand generally does not initiate a SWAT callout or a lecture on animal cruelty.

Besides being available to kill animals in traps, the spear is also handy to help me cut free any animal that should be released. My snares are generally made from synthetic cord or strapping so the knife cuts them fairly easily. It is wise to keep a healthy distance from a trapped animal, so the extra length of the spear makes the job much safer. The Bushman is good for this job because it has only one sharp edge.... thus I am less likely to cut the animal. Also, the blade is long and curves nicely from the tip to the handle... thus allowing me to make a long slicing cut. There is no abrupt finish to the blade at the handle end, neither is there a guard.... either of these things might catch on the snare cord and make it difficult to "saw" through.... and neither of these things can catch on the animal or the surrounding shrubbery.

Having only one sharpened edge would be good when pig hunting with dogs. The action is fairly fast, it often takes place in thick scrub, and the dogs often stay close to the pig. With both edges of the spear head sharpened you would be more likely to injure a dog. I have never used a spear when hunting with dogs, but I have used a knife occasionally.

I would also avoid having a barb (or a right-angled finish to the shaft end of the blade). This would catch on branches, and it may prevent you from easily withdrawing the spear from an animal to make another thrust. This is particularly important if the spear doesn't hit a vital area, or if a second animal becomes involved. This is another reason I wouldn't generally throw a spear. It feels much better to have it in your hands in a tricky situation. But I must hasten to add that this is just pure speculation, I haven't been in a situation like this and I am unlikely to be.

And while I am ranting on about barbs, I'd like to mention that I don't have barbed heads on my hunting arrows. If the arrow is sharp and has hit the right spot the job is done...barb or no barb. If the arrow hits a non-vital spot, then by having no barb the arrow may work loose and fall out of the animal thus enabling it to heal and get on with life. I also don't have guards on most of my knives, and I choose blades that have smooth curves without an abrupt angled end near the handle. These things often make the knife more difficult to use for certain jobs, and they can catch up on things and be a nuisance. A guard, for instance, could catch up badly if I were trying to cut something free from a fishing net (like a boat propeller in unpleasant conditions). Of course there are certain jobs where a knife should have a guard...pighunting is one of them.

Anyway... those are my thoughts on this topic. Best wishes to all.... Coote.

 

[Codger_64]

Inuit still do it with spears on fairly large animals, much bigger than deer, there was a documentary on it a short while ago, no dogs used in the hunt, though they provided transportation. I would assume there are other groups still fairly native and man didn't always have dogs, not did every culture adopt them eventually and use them for hunting.

More hunters in North America use spears than you realize. Dogs can be helpful in distracting an animal, but camoflage, conceilment, and other methods will put a hunter within reasonable distance of game too. As will snares that have been mentioned.

The problem with most of these types of activies for survival situations is the probability of actually doing enough damage to the animal so that you can find it, vs losing your knife or spear head. How many people can be accurate enough, powerful enough and know enough about tracking to actually make this a productive choice.

This is where practice and knowledge come in. How many people can coax fire from a log with no knowledge derived from training, practice and preparation? Knowing the anatomy of your quarry, having practiced with your spear or knife, having knowledge of the animal's habits and habitat can make primitive hunting a very productive choice.

The same goes in general of course for adapting recreational skills to high stress emergency situations. Even things that you can do very well with calm might be exceptionally different when strained. I have seen very knowledgable people become useless and even detrimental and I have seen people with little knowledge save the day simply because they calmed down and did something productive.

Then these people were playing games not preparing themselves. They are examples of darwinism in it's most basic guise. Some will be windshields, some will be bugs. Survival is about choosing which you will be and obtaining the skills and knowledge (and attitude) to make it so!

Big difference in pig sizes though, Steve Erwin for example catches wild pigs on tv on a regular basis bare handed so he would have no problem killing them with a knife assuming you can run them down, so generally without dogs you would want someone to run it towards you. Of course what he catches are not the monsters that run several hundred pounds that others hunt.

And I can take a deer barehanded if I wish, or just about ay animal using tools and intellegence, two things the animals do not have. This is one of the main things our Creator gave us when He gave us dominion over animals. True, some people are better off learning only the wild salad greens and ignoring their canine teeth, and their frontally positioned predator eyes.

What is the life (hunt) expectancy of a hog dog anyway? Could you really risk that in a an actual survival situation?

-Cliff

My friends who have good hog dogs will usually see them last a normal life time for the breed, though some will be killed, more common with cougar or bear dogs. I've never eaten a cougar or a grizz, but if I were hungry enough, or one just gave himself up...... In a survival situation you reduce the risks by doing activities thet you have practiced and become familiar and comfortable with. I would not expect a person to use his apartment dwelling lifestyle to survive in the wilderness. I would expect them to learn to do as Hank Jr. suggests ahead of time, learn to skin a buck and run a trot line (and make muscidine wine too!) before your life depends upon it.

Codger

 

[pricecw]

And while I am ranting on about barbs, I'd like to mention that I don't have barbed heads on my hunting arrows. If the arrow is sharp and has hit the right spot the job is done...barb or no barb. If the arrow hits a non-vital spot, then by having no barb the arrow may work loose and fall out of the animal thus enabling it to heal and get on with life.
Coote.

In Idaho, this is the law. I don't think I would want them either. I think in any hnting, the most important element is shot placement. This goes for arrows, spears, muzzleloaders, rifles, or slings and rocks. Bad shot placement means that you search for hours in the best case, and loose game in the worst.

It would be nice to try hunting with a spear, unfortunately, Idaho doesn't allow it on any large game I am aware of.

--Carl

 

[Cliff Stamp]

More hunters in North America use spears than you realize.

I was speaking more of way of life for natives. There is some subsistence hunting locally, usually supplementary. Locally no one I know of uses spears, bow hunting is rare as in maybe one per community.

Then these people were playing games not preparing themselves.

I don't think it is those people's fault entirely, some do take it seriously they are just being mislead. How much survival training focuses on that aspect and how much just supplies the information and assumes it can actually be applied in a high stress enviroment.

Take a look in this forum at knives commonly recommended and consider the ability of those tools in a high stress situation. It isn't an uncommon perspective to put forth the arguement that you can maintain perfect technique. Is this actually realistic considering stress, injury, fatigue, fear of death, etc. .

How many reports of survival courses have you read where actual survival situations were simulated and even in such a simulation can you approach the mentality of the actual event where you know you will be safe if something goes really wrong.

In a survival situation you reduce the risks by doing activities thet you have practiced and become familiar and comfortable with ...

Ideally to the extent they are natural and instinctive.

-Cliff