Should a maker be selling knives while a customer has already paid and is waiting?

Lorien said:
....I also trust in the fact that his knives are among the most finely finished knives made. The knife he's referring to as being his best will be well worth the wait for the deserving patron, and I expect that Nick will be much better able to make more knives once this monolith is out of his way..
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Nick's knives are finished about as well as a number of makers out there...Andrews, Ankrom, Dean,Fogg, Foster, Fuegen, Hancock, Knight, Newton....in other words, he finishes his knives about as well as any top notch Mastersmith.

Nick's knives, themselves, at least the two that I have, are some of the best knives I own, period. The steel, construction methods, grinds, yes the finish, and sheaths(made by Nick) are simply without better.

However, IF I had an order that I pre-paid for with Nick, I probably would have killed him by now....because difficult doesn't even begin to explain that young man....he suffers clinically from more than one problem, and that is just the ones in his head.

Starving artist would have been a great description for Nick if he didn't have a supportive family. If the knife community was filled with Nick Wheelers...there might be three or four collectors around with enough patience to collect and appreciate the work.

Nick is a friend of mine, BTW.

Regardless of the payment method, when a maker is on the hook, they are on the hook.

Let's turn this around......if the knife is done, and payment is due, how long is a maker willing to wait to get it?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Pardon my background noise, but it seems to me that when one has two oft-opposite sides of the conversation like Lorien and STeven coming together on the talent and "worth" of a human being, ya outta cut that human being some slack. 'Cause it's all gotta be worth it in the long run!

Best,

Bob Betzner
 
There has been a lot of maker bashin in this thread and I'm gonna give my two cents.

First off I've only been at this a short time (five years) and produced maybe 50 knives and been burned a few times. The majority of my dealings go off without a hitch and the customers have been a pleasure to deal with.

One flake ordered a knife and I told him it would be a few months before I was able to start it. Within that time he called and changed his order multiple times, and I went along with all of his requests. A week before I was ready to start his knife I gave him a call to let him know he was next in line. He never said a thing about times being tough financially. When the knife was finished and payment was due all I got were excuses, NO CASH! The silver lining to this story is that knife has brought me multiple orders and was the first one off my table at Blade last year.

Just last week had a customer call and cancel an order on a Bowie I had yet to start. He had already ordered from me in the past and paid right on time and loved his knife(The Damascus Fighter I posted earlier this week). I understand that people go through tough times and I respect those that have the balls to say "Hey man I have to put that order on hold.

Too sum things up, there are crappy customers and crappy makers and then there are the good ones. It's up to us makers and buyers to chose who were going to do business with.
 
Mike Quesenberry said:
There has been a lot of maker bashin in this thread and I'm gonna give my two cents.

First off I've only been at this a short time (five years) and produced maybe 50 knives and been burned a few times..
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Not so much bashing....shall we say an exchange of opinions and experiences?

I have purchased HUNDREDS of custom knives in the last 25 years, and have had perhaps less than 50 bad maker experiences with regards to delivery/communications..so what?

It only takes one bad experience to negatively color your perceptions...and for new collectors, it only often takes that one negative perception in order for them to walk away.

I wonder how many collectors Jon Fitch burned before he got out of the game? How many collectors would be here if it wasn't for him and his behavior which was defended by a fair amount of people.

As a collector who counts many makers are close and personal friends, can honestly say that the community could afford to lose 10 makers for ever serious collector it loses or is run off by unscrupulous behavior.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Mike Quesenberry said:
There has been a lot of maker bashin in this thread and I'm gonna give my two cents.

First off I've only been at this a short time (five years) and produced maybe 50 knives and been burned a few times. The majority of my dealings go off without a hitch and the customers have been a pleasure to deal with.

One flake ordered a knife and I told him it would be a few months before I was able to start it. Within that time he called and changed his order multiple times, and I went along with all of his requests. A week before I was ready to start his knife I gave him a call to let him know he was next in line. He never said a thing about times being tough financially. When the knife was finished and payment was due all I got were excuses, NO CASH! The silver lining to this story is that knife has brought me multiple orders and was the first one off my table at Blade last year.

Just last week had a customer call and cancel an order on a Bowie I had yet to start. He had already ordered from me in the past and paid right on time and loved his knife(The Damascus Fighter I posted earlier this week). I understand that people go through tough times and I respect those that have the balls to say "Hey man I have to put that order on hold.

Too sum things up, there are crappy customers and crappy makers and then there are the good ones. It's up to us makers and buyers to chose who were going to do business with.
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AMEN and well said, especially the bolded. :thumbup:
 
betzner said:
it seems to me that when one has two oft-opposite sides of the conversation like Lorien and STeven coming together on the talent and "worth" of a human being, ya outta cut that human being some slack. 'Cause it's all gotta be worth it in the long run!
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exactly. It's all about the humans.
However, I think STeven and I have more in common than it might seem.
 
I've been waiting for a knife by a maker on these forums.He's a very well respected maker,but has been known to make people wait for a long time for his work.That's what I gathered from several threads in TGB&U anyway(some were very harsh & threatening!).

I paid in advance for my knife back in Feb'10(well to honest,I paid about 9/10ths of it.I still owe for shipping & a couple of other extras).It was supposed to completed by May-June '10.Now it's been pushed up to the end of Aug'10(maybe Sept'10),last I heard.

This maker makes some awesome knives,but leaves a lot to be desired in the business aspect,customer service,& especially communication(or lack there of).Maybe he should hire someone to take care of the business part?That way he could dedicate all of his time to making knives.Just an idea.

IMHO,It seems he takes on too many orders at once,& can't fulfill them within the time frame originally quoted.

I've seen several of his knives up for sale in the exchange by him,since I placed my order,& it is a little disturbing to say the least.I don't know,maybe he was working on them before I ever placed my order?

I'm very new to the custom knife world,& I'll admit I don't quite know how things work.I know how other things work though.I was in house construction for over 15yrs,& when we said the job would be completed on a specific date,it very well better be,or we could expect legal action.
If I pay for a product to be finished on a specific date(maybe give or take a week or two at the most),I expect the provider/maker to own up to his word/commitment.
On the other hand,I don't want him to rush the job,& possibly botch it.

All I know is,once I receive my order(hopefully before the year is over),this will be the first & last knife I buy from this maker.

I will not mention his name(though most of you have already figured it out by now).Like I said,he is a highly respected maker,& has his own sub-forum here.I'm relatively new to the custom knife world & don't want to make any enemies,or have makers leary about dealing with me.I'm actually pretty easy going(maybe too easy going:o)

Thanks for listening to my (very minor) rant.I know my time frame is nothing compared to some I've heard about,like waiting 2,3,4,sometimes 5 years for a knife!I don't know how you guys do it.

Take Care,
 
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Well as you all know, I don't make knives. My job starts when the maker is finished. As Mike says there are crappy makers and crappy customers. I really concentrate on NOT being one of the crappy makers, and if I do get hold of a crappy customer, he NEVER EVER knows it because he will get the same speed and level of service and commitment that someone I really love to work for gets.............BUT, I only have to work for the bad one once, because if you stick your foot in the same Bear trap twice, well then that is your fault. The same thing is true on the other side of the coin. If you or I don't get the treatment, speed, quality or respect we think we deserve, we can surely withhold any future business with that source.

I guess it all boils down to mutual respect and treating folks like you would like to be treated. (someone ought to write that down....it could be called "The Golden rule";))

Paul
 
JTR357,
As you said, your "mystery maker" isn't really much of a mystery to most of us here. And your idea that he should hire someone to take care of the communication aspects of his business is not new. How do I know? Because I once offered to do it for him for free. That's right, I offered just to help him out. I sent him a PM and did not here back from him for several months. I figured that I had been blown off or he never got it due to some technical glitch with the PMs. Over a year later, I get a reply from him quoting my original message. His reply simply asked something along the lines of "still interested?" I then responded with something like, "yes, what can I do to help?". I know this WON'T come as a big shock when I say that I never heard back from him again. :rolleyes::jerkit:
 
JTR357 said:
...
Thanks for listening to my (very minor) rant.I know my time frame is nothing compared to some I've heard about,like waiting 2,3,4,sometimes 5 years for a knife!I don't know how you guys do it.

Take Care,
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It goes along with the Way of things here. I have waited for more than 5 years for some makers....it is just the way it works sometimes....but if they don't communicate? That is what makes the blood boil, and invokes the gnashing of the teeths.:)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Just for the record... the OP is not about me.

I was just adding my two cents from (sort of) the other side of the coin.

I do appreciate the words put up about me, my work, and my history. Good and bad. It all makes up who/what I am, and part of the road to being who/what you want to be is figuring out where you're at to begin with.

:)
 
wherever you go, there you are:)
 
Kohai999 said:
Not so much bashing....shall we say an exchange of opinions and experiences?

I have purchased HUNDREDS of custom knives in the last 25 years, and have had perhaps less than 50 bad maker experiences with regards to delivery/communications..so what?

It only takes one bad experience to negatively color your perceptions...and for new collectors, it only often takes that one negative perception in order for them to walk away.

I wonder how many collectors Jon Fitch burned before he got out of the game? How many collectors would be here if it wasn't for him and his behavior which was defended by a fair amount of people.

As a collector who counts many makers are close and personal friends, can honestly say that the community could afford to lose 10 makers for ever serious collector it loses or is run off by unscrupulous behavior.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Some good points as well.
 
With all due respect, at this time I'm not going to mention any names. I'm hopeful my 'issues' will get resolved soon. I will post up some pics down the road (which will show the maker...).

I know this could get ugly and turn into a he-said kinda thing & I'd prefer it stay civil and family friendly. I very much appreciate the posts and opinions here.
 
If there is anyone to blame here its me. This thread was started about me Charlie Edmondson. Im not gonna make excuses to why Erics blade has taken this long cause the point is he should have it and he dont. Point blank. He didnt do anything wrong and I have just taken on to much work as a part time maker. I hope this dosent make me a bad person or give me a bad reputation cause thats not what I want. I think highly of anyone that would want to buy a blade from me, this helps my family more than I could ever explain and I love this hobby so very much. I apologize to Eric and hope he can forgive my procrastinating and to anyone else that might have been offended by any of this.
 
Sometimes things get drawn out it does not make anyone a bad person as long as things are resolved

This all goes back to the simple solution to all these situations never ever pay for a knife in advance. If your gonna trade something wait till the knife is done and then trade.

Even good people get in jams the simple rule to not pay in advance or to pay when knife is ready to ship has always worked for me.
 
when a maker is on the hook, they are on the hook
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I talked to a great, knowledgeable, very seasoned and very trusting collector at BLADE for several hours-this mutual friend had been given the runaround by one of the world's most favorite knifemakers for years. The maker is an ICON in the knifeworld and really hosed this gentleman. This gentleman has a LOT of disposable income and frankly, despite his excellent taste, is a trusting soul. This isn't a "John FitchFuck" case either, it is a household name, front page knifemaker that gave my friend a line of redneck bullshit for almost a decade until it almost came to a legal head.

He paid in advance.
 
Charlie is good folk who tries to please you. I got that confrontations and negative pressure is hard on makers and I'm sure that it's easier to say a false completion date rather than a 'I don't know as I have ______ to deal with' and 'I have a wait... First wait I have ever had and it's my first time dealing with this pressure'

Anyways I'm still on the list and it will come when it comes.

Also I have a remake in the works from a Very prominent maker similar to the OP. Lot's of $$ invested Waiting is a killer :)
 
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