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Should I Cancel This Order
- Thread starter Win Heger
- Start date
Win Heger
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Thanks, guys, all very good replies.
Here's a little more history. The maker has made and filled many orders since mine, I would assume, he's not a maker with a large back log. I was originally going to buy an available knife and that fell through. I was told within a year, and did follow up within that time frame.
I have a friend that mentioned that he was friends with this maker. Casual conversation. I told him about an undelivered order and he brought it up to the maker. He was told by the maker about 18 months ago "yeah, I really do need to make Win a knife" Maker and I spoke but it got continually put off due to show commitments and personal reasons.
I know makers can crank out knives pretty damned fast. When he has a "ready for final finishing" blade in his hand and tells me 3-4 weeks I roll my eyes. Now it's eight weeks and he tells another maker I should call.
Knives are fun but I really have never gotten upset about a delivery or an order. This is no exception, I just thought it would be fun to get some opinions. I have no money invested and can bear the loss of a set of scales.
I'll be calling the maker this evening to cancel and thank him for his trouble.
As a foot note: I ordered 10 knives at the Arkansas Show in 2002, only two have been delivered! Only one maker had a waiting list longer than 1 year. This is one of the 10.
Win
Here's a little more history. The maker has made and filled many orders since mine, I would assume, he's not a maker with a large back log. I was originally going to buy an available knife and that fell through. I was told within a year, and did follow up within that time frame.
I have a friend that mentioned that he was friends with this maker. Casual conversation. I told him about an undelivered order and he brought it up to the maker. He was told by the maker about 18 months ago "yeah, I really do need to make Win a knife" Maker and I spoke but it got continually put off due to show commitments and personal reasons.
I know makers can crank out knives pretty damned fast. When he has a "ready for final finishing" blade in his hand and tells me 3-4 weeks I roll my eyes. Now it's eight weeks and he tells another maker I should call.
Knives are fun but I really have never gotten upset about a delivery or an order. This is no exception, I just thought it would be fun to get some opinions. I have no money invested and can bear the loss of a set of scales.
I'll be calling the maker this evening to cancel and thank him for his trouble.
As a foot note: I ordered 10 knives at the Arkansas Show in 2002, only two have been delivered! Only one maker had a waiting list longer than 1 year. This is one of the 10.
Win
There seems to have been some second hand information being passed between the customer and the maker. That, to me, is never a good way for a maker or customer to communicate and almost always causes misunderstandings. I never discuss an order with anyone but the customer placing the order. It would have been a good idea to call the maker a long time ago and find out what is going on. It still is a good idea to call him and clear this up one way or another.
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If the original order was a year or less, that puts a little different perspective on your situation. Your footnote is interesting. Are the makers the orders were made with all still active makers?
- Joe
Win Heger
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Joe, one maker has recently "retired" but that situation had played out a long time ago. He self destructed, I think we all know who I'm talking about.
The scenario:
Maker A: 3 knives in trade for a gun. Numerous lies told never delivered.
Maker B: 1 knife ordered, never heard from again. Very well known
Maker C: 3 knives ordered, called twice told "soon", never heard from again.
Maker D: 1 knife, current situation Very well known
Maker D: Ron Newton, delivered on time and has continued to do so. He has gotten at least two more very good customers from my recommendation.
Win
The scenario:
Maker A: 3 knives in trade for a gun. Numerous lies told never delivered.
Maker B: 1 knife ordered, never heard from again. Very well known
Maker C: 3 knives ordered, called twice told "soon", never heard from again.
Maker D: 1 knife, current situation Very well known
Maker D: Ron Newton, delivered on time and has continued to do so. He has gotten at least two more very good customers from my recommendation.
Win
Win
Not getting away from your current problem, but this is an issue that the makers should heed. I have numerous orders that were placed years ago - with none of the makers giving me more that a years backlog - that have never been filled. It's not for want of interest, as I make periodic contact with the makers, but the orders just keep getting pushed back. I know that knives have to be made for shows, and other orders are being filled, but there are also some clients who are receiving knives every month. What about the rest of us? Shouldn't a maker work from a chronological list and take care of the little guys too? I talk to all of these makers and they are nice guys, but when it comes to customer service and personal ethics I have to wonder....
Not getting away from your current problem, but this is an issue that the makers should heed. I have numerous orders that were placed years ago - with none of the makers giving me more that a years backlog - that have never been filled. It's not for want of interest, as I make periodic contact with the makers, but the orders just keep getting pushed back. I know that knives have to be made for shows, and other orders are being filled, but there are also some clients who are receiving knives every month. What about the rest of us? Shouldn't a maker work from a chronological list and take care of the little guys too? I talk to all of these makers and they are nice guys, but when it comes to customer service and personal ethics I have to wonder....
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By all means call him, if he can't ship to you right away (within 3 days) then request any and all deposits from him and email him sources of comparable handle material which you will expect to be delivered within a week. Make sure that your reserve the right to reject inferior material.
Then find a maker who values you as a customer. I don't think you have found one in any of the 8 makers you mention.
Then find a maker who values you as a customer. I don't think you have found one in any of the 8 makers you mention.
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What has happened to you is inexcusable. A comment, though, just from a different perspective.
If you have a knife ordered and it seems to long, send the maker an email or call. If no answer to the email, definitely call.
In 2004 I was burglarized, really thoroughly. Not only was my computer stolen, but also my backup disks. Anyone with a pending knife order, unless they called, was in the same boat I was: out of luck. It was several weeks before I had a new computer up and running, which is the reason for the call if no reply statement.
As those with orders contacted me, I explained what had happened and thanked them for following up. To my knowledge, all orders were taken care of.
Your circumstance doesn't fit my scenario, but a periodic call is a good thing if you think things aren't progressing as they should. For those taking orders, I really recommend a backup hard copy filed in a notebook or some other place to keep track. Why they took all my disks and CD's I dunno, but why they took all my dishes I dunno either.
I'd cancel and ask for the handle material back. I wouldn't, at this point, expect an apology because that would be unlikely.
Good luck,
Gene
If you have a knife ordered and it seems to long, send the maker an email or call. If no answer to the email, definitely call.
In 2004 I was burglarized, really thoroughly. Not only was my computer stolen, but also my backup disks. Anyone with a pending knife order, unless they called, was in the same boat I was: out of luck. It was several weeks before I had a new computer up and running, which is the reason for the call if no reply statement.
As those with orders contacted me, I explained what had happened and thanked them for following up. To my knowledge, all orders were taken care of.
Your circumstance doesn't fit my scenario, but a periodic call is a good thing if you think things aren't progressing as they should. For those taking orders, I really recommend a backup hard copy filed in a notebook or some other place to keep track. Why they took all my disks and CD's I dunno, but why they took all my dishes I dunno either.
I'd cancel and ask for the handle material back. I wouldn't, at this point, expect an apology because that would be unlikely.
Good luck,
Gene
Absintheur
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At this point you have little to lose, call the maker. If you have made a cash deposit the ask for a definite reasonable time frame for the knife to be finished. He is either not a professional maker and does this very part time (1 knife every 4-5 years does not support a family) or he is filling other orders in front of yours. If the knife does not materialize in the agreed upon time frame and you don't have any money invested then walk away. If you do have money invested the next contact, if it were me, would come from my lawyer.
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I say call him. You must remember that several makers are backloged into several years worth of orders, this makes it impossible to finish and ship the knife in a timely fashion. The maker still should keep contact with the customer though, related to the knife's( or knife sculpture's) progress..or either to keep a list of orders on his or her site telling their progress.
This might not be possible neither though, if a maker was to be that backloged, chances are, it would be very hard to keep contact infomation for every singal customer, afterall, the maker is only one person. This is why its usually best for the customer to contact the maker instead of the maker contacting customer.
Ask him more questions then just "When will my knife be ready?", tell him to send you more e-mails with photos of the progress, ask him how many other knives hes working on, etc. Afterall, if your order is behind somebody elses, it wouldn't be fair of that maker to work on yours more then the one in front.
If the maker has a high reputation, expect a long waiting period. Higher reputation generally means more customers, more customers usually means more knife projects, more knife projects means more time, more time on other projects means less time on yours. This is why many full-time makers work 11-13 hours per day.
This might not be possible neither though, if a maker was to be that backloged, chances are, it would be very hard to keep contact infomation for every singal customer, afterall, the maker is only one person. This is why its usually best for the customer to contact the maker instead of the maker contacting customer.
Ask him more questions then just "When will my knife be ready?", tell him to send you more e-mails with photos of the progress, ask him how many other knives hes working on, etc. Afterall, if your order is behind somebody elses, it wouldn't be fair of that maker to work on yours more then the one in front.
If the maker has a high reputation, expect a long waiting period. Higher reputation generally means more customers, more customers usually means more knife projects, more knife projects means more time, more time on other projects means less time on yours. This is why many full-time makers work 11-13 hours per day.
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Win:
of those makers who haven't delivered , how many , if any , are full time ? With any small business (self run ), things happen. 1 year turning into 5+ years overdue is unacceptable. :thumbdn:
Regarding the deal with maker A , I have heard more horror stories from people who have traded items for a knife , and fulfilled their end of the deal and are waiting for years for the maker to fulfill their end even though the knife was promised to be delivered in a few months.
You must have the patience of a Saint Win , me personally , I don't wait well and refuse to hound a maker to take my hard earned cash. Went that route once years ago , wasted time & energy with no fullfillment. Never again.
What I don't understand is this idea that the customer is supposed to be the one doing the checking on his order. Isn't it the makers responsibility to take care of their business ? All the effort should not come from the customers side ! Is there any other industry where it is up to the customer to chase their orders ?
It will be interesting , the way the economy is hurting now , and with people having less disposable income , how many of these makers like you mention , will then go back to these uinfilled orders and complete them in hopes that the customer is still patiently waiting.
Support those makers that do deliver and treat you in a respectful manner , and never forget , you are paying them , not the other way around.
OilMan
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Ditto that. I chase no-comm vendors around enough at work, I don't want to do it at home too. It's also part of the reason I'll never order another custom directly from a maker. Been there, done that. I'd rather skip the sh1t and pay more from a dealer up front.
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Win Heger
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John, you make some excellent points. I know at least 3 of the makers were full time when the order were placed. The one who I'm sure was part time did ask for more time during an early conversation. In fact, I let him off the hook on part of the order now that I think about it. He's never contacted me since.
I'm with you, I'm not chasing knifemakers to get an order. I order knives from one of the true legends, Bob Loveless, and without any further BS my knives get done and delivered. Imagine that, he is 78 years old and still manages to fulfill orders without being chased.
Win
Hey, Mayo, hope you're feeling better! At least you can type, one or two fingers?
I'm with you, I'm not chasing knifemakers to get an order. I order knives from one of the true legends, Bob Loveless, and without any further BS my knives get done and delivered. Imagine that, he is 78 years old and still manages to fulfill orders without being chased.
Win
Hey, Mayo, hope you're feeling better! At least you can type, one or two fingers?
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Easy to say, but hard to do when you've got an emotional investment already made, but I've started a list of rules for myself:
1) Only pay someone to make a knife if you're sure their heart is really in it.
2) If in doubt, pick up the phone (and the earlier the better).
3) Don't send the email! See 2).
Dave
1) Only pay someone to make a knife if you're sure their heart is really in it.
2) If in doubt, pick up the phone (and the earlier the better).
3) Don't send the email! See 2).
Dave
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perhaps the real questions are :
How bad does the maker want to make and deliver the knife ?
How dedicated is the maker to following thru on promises ?
How bad does the maker want to make a sale ?
How bad does the maker want a buyers money ?
Just a guess , but if someone goes thru the trouble of ordering a knife , they want it , if they want it really bad , they may be forced to put up with BS in order to get it , but they shouldn't have to ...
The old saying " If you want it bad enuff you will wait for it " , had to have been coined by someone either making or selling something.
Hey Tom , hope you are healing well my friend.