Should I Cancel This Order

[teacher]

perhaps the real questions are :

How bad does the maker want to make and deliver the knife ?

How dedicated is the maker to following thru on promises ?

How bad does the maker want to make a sale ?

How bad does the maker want a buyers money ?

Just a guess , but if someone goes thru the trouble of ordering a knife , they want it , if they want it really bad , they may be forced to put up with BS in order to get it , but they shouldn't have to ...

The old saying " If you want it bad enuff you will wait for it " , had to have been coined by someone either making or selling something.



Hey Tom , hope you are healing well my friend.

+ 1 .......

 

[Raymond3]

Hi Win,

Been there, done that. I understand your frustration. It just aint right.

Somewhere in the the "handshake" code is delivery on time.

However, decades of dealing with similar situations, esp with custom guns (if you think that getting a custom knife is hard, whoooaaaa, try getting a custom gun which requires six or seven custom artists) has given me some perspsective on the situation.

#1. You can't control the other guy, only yourself.

#2. Patience is a virtue, but followup helps both remind the other guy, and helps the waiter know that the other guy is a real human being that is trying on some level.

#3. A final breakup (and that is what a cancellation like this for these reasons would be) hurts everyone, and forever. That is just the way it is. Even if it is delivered late, and even if you never want to order another knife from him, and even if you never recommend him, and even if you end up selling the knife for lots of reasons, somehow, everyone has a lump a hurt that just can't ever be removed with that kind of forever rejection, that is a cancellation for fault of the maker to keep his word. (even more since it is justified)

So, i would recommend the same as others: just call him, be patient, and let things play out. Forgive him his failings and injuries against you ( because it is surely that) and hope that it is a balance for some of your injuries against someone else. (you know, the Lord's Prayer and all.) When I have done that, it seems to have worked out best in the long run.

I hope that you really enjoy (or make a bundle off) the knife when it comes.

 

[Ken Williams]

Is this knife a difficult style that the maker is wont to push to the back of the line?

If you still want the knife, swallow hard and call since you have paid your dues and are on the cusp of finding out how this might play out. Good endings are always best for both parties and it seems worth just a little more time and effort to finish, as they say in sports.

The dynamic that must change, however, is that YOU take control. Decide how long you are willing to wait and inform him of YOUR deadline. The slightest run around or lack of contrition on his part is a deal breaker; ask for your handle material immediately. If he agrees to finish by your deadline but fails, tell him the day the clock runs out to forget the knife and demand the handle material. Lastly, consider running this guy's name up the infamy flag pole as a courtesy warning to the rest of us.

ken

 

[Win Heger]

Update: Called at 8PM Friday, no answer, left message.


Win

 

[teacher]

Update: Called at 8PM Friday, no answer, left message.


Win

Thanks for the update Win..... :thumbup:
Please do continue to keep us updated on this matter.... I have become interested myself.
Good luck..........

 

[Raj]

Hi Win,a knife in your collection should make you happy whenever you pick it up or use it.If you have bad memories associated with a knife,it is not going to make you happy.Only thing to do is sell it and move on.Hopefully as long as it is a famous, in demand maker you may make some money off of it.
As you are not into knives for making money,that becomes a moot point.
Hopefully he will return your handle material to you.
It is amazing that of all the makers you ordered from in 2002,only Ron Newton honoured his word to you.
I hope you get your handle material back.
Go back and order more from Newton.

 

[Kevin Jones]

It's really a shame Win as things happen causing delays, however no matter the situation the maker could contact you. That's just common courtesy. Not communicating shows he doesn't care.

Perhaps as an industry we have so many knives on order that some maker don't even consider orders real anymore. They should just stop taking orders when they get to a certain point. Don Hanson would be an example of a maker that would never let this happen.

I know of one very well known maker that lost ALL his records in a computer mishap several years ago, but he did try to contact collectors and made announcements for collectors to contact him. That's really a tough situation because even it you are able to determine whose got orders with you, the delivery sequence would at best be a guess.

Not sure your reference to Bob Loveless is relevant thought as he has had others making knives for him for some time.

 

[canineforge]

Perhaps as an industry we have so many knives on order that some maker don't even consider orders real anymore. They should just stop taking orders when they get to a certain point. Don Hanson would be an example of a maker that would never let this happen.

I think you have hit on something, Kevin. Something that may be a larger problem than it should be. When orders are taken 'loosely' or not real any longer, and what ever comes along becomes the flavor of the day, it can hurt a maker's reputation. I hope this is the exception rather than the rule, which I feel it is. It is just that Win's low return of orders placed in 2002 is a real eye-opener.

Don and other full-time makers, making their living through their craft only, can't run a profitable business by treating clients in such a manner. And, knowing when to say no can alleviate future problems. Each client can present with interesting needs and requests, but being able to work with them and sorting those situations out, rather than pushing a difficult one aside instead of saying no, just snowballs into major troubles as those type of orders just pile up. Knowing when to say no to a client could be an important solution to some of these problems that seem to be present. (Damn, I hope all of my orders don't get canceled!? )

This has been a great thread to hash out a specific problem that sometime arises through maker/customer relations, and I am anxious to see how Win's predicament ends up.

- Joe

 

[Raj]

Hi,hope you got an answer to your phone call last Friday.Let us know how things are going regarding this knife order.
Hope your knife is being sent to you or at least the handle material comes back.

 

[Jim Smyth]

I bet if you mentioned "said makers name" he would be contacting you very soon........................

 

[Win Heger]

I left another message for the maker on Wed. nite. Well, I got a phone call, last evening. He was quite apologetic and had been down at the ABS School over the weekend.

I like honesty in people. It's how I run my life. I was curious to hear this one's excuse. He simply said "Win, I'm a really disorganized guy. I wish I could offer more, that's really it. Sometimes us artsy types just aren't organized and good businessmen." Sums up a lot of makers to me.

We had a good discussion about maker's and collectors responsibilities. I certainly did not pull any punches and maybe just a little hit home.

I'm going to accept the knife. The maker is participating in some cutting competition over the weekend or else it would be done a bit earlier.

I really appreciate all the input from you folks. I directed the maker to this, maybe he'll read it.

Win

 

[Lycosa]

Win---Good for you. I will not WOO WOO, until you post a pic of that knife. Aw, what the heck---WOOO WOOO!!!
Rolf

 

[SharpByCoop]

Without question you have to 'feel good' about a knife when you own it. This includes a large dose of relationship. Very few folks are uncompromising when someone owns their mistakes. Timeliness is a virtue.

Glad you handled it well.

Coop

 

[Ken Williams]

A fitting ending to a knife memorializing how character snatches goodness from the jaws of bitterness every time. Well done, Win.

Please note, however, the story is not over until we see the goodness.

ken

 

[AV8R]

Planning to meet someone somewhere, having him be 5 hours late and hearing, "sorry man, I'm really a disorganized person......."

Ordering food at a restaurant, getting it 3 hrs later and hearing that the cook is "good", but just a little "slow"...........

you get the point. Maybe "Mr. Unprofessional" should be charging amateur money for his knives until he can get his crap together. Or just GIVE you the knife after this whole mess?? Hey, that's an idea. I know guys that would.


Pete

 

[teacher]

I was curious to hear this one's excuse. He simply said "Win, I'm a really disorganized guy. I wish I could offer more, that's really it. Sometimes us artsy types just aren't organized and good businessmen."
I really appreciate all the input from you folks. I directed the maker to this, maybe he'll read it.

Win

Thanks for the update Win.

While I do not condone what has happened, I can respect his honesty about the situation. At least he did not make excuses.......... :thumbup:

Heck, I can even understand where he is coming from...... I am not to organized myself sometimes..... .... And, I am not "artsy" at all.

You have decided to go ahead and take the knife..... I respect that also.

I hope the knife ends up being above your expectations........ :thumbup: