Should I make more of these? Design opinions requested

" After all these years i can finally make a decent knife, but i cannot seem to design or draw one that is original and unique that makes tons of orders come flying in. i admire those who can"

insightful. Most of us that stay at this for any time, find ourselves here. I'm one myself; but then while I was looking for a great knife design; I figured out the Bubble Jig, I found a useful way to contribute to the knife making industry.
Many good post on this thread, Fred
 
Richard338 said:
We can debate what the best designs are, but to me a good question here is about execution.
Do you have patterns that you designed that look like these knives?
In other words are these the result of successful execution of a plan (or did they just come out like this somehow)?
As a beginner myself, I like to see how well I can follow my plan and then make a new better design the next time.
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Richard, this is a brilliantly orchestrated post. You said it well thought out. Every knife I design starts on paper or in CAD. It gen make a stencil and glue to the steel.gave also started with aluminum as a template). I make what I call a "master copy". It a finished flat blanks-no bevels. I use this to make future templates from paper, to glue to the steel, or scribe directly.
 
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Thanks for all the great replies and perspective views from both sides, wild and free and tried and true. All have their place. I wasn't really going for a signature or unique look, (a new thread that would be fun is " Show us your signature blades"). But the critique is very helpful. I've downloaded over a hundred photos from BF that I draw inspiration from and sometimes try to combine elements from more than one in my drawings.

I've come to really like the swayback feel as the front of the hand sinks into the sway and the palm heel is supported slightly upward towards the back. Similarly I like the thumb ramp which feels like it gives powerful control when using in that position IF it's placed correctly. Both can be and were overdone or under-refined though, thanks for pointing those areas out in particular. There's plenty of meat left on the handles so I'll do some of the suggested mods, mostly smoothing the top of handle and bringing in the belly here and there, and refining the finger choil areas where shown above.

Oh and a especial thanks to AVigil... for the safety tip. I haven't had one spin out yet but I'll definitely drill before beveling from here on out.

I really appreciate the time you all took to respond, I doubt that I'm alone in that.:thumbsup:
 
I'm pretty new and I will tell you that your eye and feel changes as you keep going. One thing it sounds like everyone is dancing around is that the back of the handle and the back of the blade should flow in a smooth line. It's a basic rule and like all rules it gets broken. I think thats up to you but you should know that you are doing it. Your first ones had a style, it's not my kinda thing but it was kinda folksy. In my mind everything behind the handle is just there for weight. Since your knives don't seem to be designed as choppers that might be unnecessary. My read on what the others are trying to tell you is that if your design is all about style then identify that style and call it style, lean into it. If it is for function it is somewhat different than the norm. At this point you are somewhat obligated to justify that it a meaningful change. Just my 2 cents . Sometimes it's hard to say why you like something but if you are making it for others you have to be able to explain it. Good luck
 
skillgannon said:
if you are making it for others you have to be able to explain it
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Most makers aim for either function or art or a combination. If you make something else you have to sell (convince) customers it's better for some reason than the norm. If selling isn't the goal, make what you want. If you want to sell more than a few, make styles that sell. One arm makes knives that sell, so does Don Hansen. Both are relatively happy with their knives.
 
I don't think any of your blades look terrible, though I do see some room for improvement, IMO. I see a few potential "hot spots". I would soften the corners and round out your finger grooves a bit more. Aside from that, put some handles on them and use them. Let a couple others try them out. You'll find any design flaws, or areas to be improved, soon enough.
At the end of the day, there's no getting around the fact that no experienced knife makers make knives the same way as when they started. You'll learn and grow, your eye for design and detail will change, as will the type of knives you want to make. However, the only way to get to that 100th knife is to make the first 99, no matter how good or bad they are. Just try to find something to do better on every knife, no matter how small or insignificant.
 
AVigil said:
Those who have sknned 50 deer are already doing so with proven knife designs and there is not much they could contribute to make them better.
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My point exactly. Those who have skinned 50 deer have tried just about every knife under the sun and found the one with the features that work the best. Most knife makers have not made every one of those knives with every possible combination. therefor, I'd rather listen to the skinner.
 
Bearklr said:
My point exactly. Those who have skinned 50 deer have tried just about every knife under the sun and found the one with the features that work the best. Most knife makers have not made every one of those knives with every possible combination. therefor, I'd rather listen to the skinner.
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We have hundreds of years of feedback from hunters as to what works, millions of knives have be made that fill every need.

The skinning knife does not have to be re invented by hunters in 2018.

We already know what works and why it works.

There is a reason the Loveless Drop Point Hunter is the most famous and copied knife in the world.
 
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Hey JT - a half smashed purple alien? I've always thought that too, but I've never had the nerve to say so.
 
AVigil said:
We have hundreds of years of feedback from hunters as to what works, millions of knives have be made that fill every need.

The skinning knife does not have to be re invented by hunters in 2018.

We already know what works and why it works.

There is a reason the Loveless Drop Point Hunter is the most famous and copied knife in the world.
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Not arguing with you that just about every knife that can be made has been made but it sounds as though I hit a nerve. Sorry if I don't agree 100% that a knife maker has the best knowledge when it comes to design. If I'm designing the perfect baseball glove I'm going to ask Derek Jeter what he thinks should go into it, not Stan down at the Rawlings factory. Granted, Stan has made plenty of gloves and may know a lot about design but I doubt he knows more about what a perfect glove should be than Jeter. In the same note, if I need to know about how to build the glove that was designed I sure as heck am not gonna ask Jeter, I'm gonna go to Stan the professional for that. That's the only point I am trying to make.
 
Bearklr said:
My point exactly. Those who have skinned 50 deer have tried just about every knife under the sun and found the one with the features that work the best. Most knife makers have not made every one of those knives with every possible combination. therefor, I'd rather listen to the skinner.
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I’ve got a couple friends who had me make their “ultimate skinner” when I was starting out. Both now tell me what they want the knife to do, and let me design it. Their ideas of what they thought they wanted resulted in blades with lousy leverage, difficult to hold on to, and hot spots in use. Ymmv.
 
Bearklr said:
Not arguing with you that just about every knife that can be made has been made but it sounds as though I hit a nerve. Sorry if I don't agree 100% that a knife maker has the best knowledge when it comes to design. If I'm designing the perfect baseball glove I'm going to ask Derek Jeter what he thinks should go into it, not Stan down at the Rawlings factory. Granted, Stan has made plenty of gloves and may know a lot about design but I doubt he knows more about what a perfect glove should be than Jeter. In the same note, if I need to know about how to build the glove that was designed I sure as heck am not gonna ask Jeter, I'm gonna go to Stan the professional for that. That's the only point I am trying to make.
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I understand what you are saying.
What would a hunter in 2018 say and recommend on improving a skinning knife that is not currently being done?
 
Willie71 said:
I’ve got a couple friends who had me make their “ultimate skinner” when I was starting out. Both now tell me what they want the knife to do, and let me design it. Their ideas of what they thought they wanted resulted in blades with lousy leverage, difficult to hold on to, and hot spots in use. Ymmv.
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Perfect example of collaboration. Once again, I'm not saying knife makers don't have knowledge of knife design, that would be an outright stupid statement but your point of them telling you what they want it to do is what I'm referring to. A professional processor can come in and say hey, "I want a knife with a wide curved cutting edge for skinning, a strong point for prying through joints with a blade thickness to hold up to prying sometimes required to process a deer with a synthetic handle that maintains grip when wet. They also can outline blade length based off the size of the animal they typically process. Then you as a knife maker could put their design requirements to paper. Now if I asked someone to design a processing knife who is a knife maker who never put a knife to flesh would they be able to come up with something without copying someone else's design having never used the knife for it's intended purpose? I am only using animal processing as an example but it could be for anything. What if we were talking about a knife for a farrier? How many people even have a clue about shoeing a horse or trimming hooves let alone what they would typically need a knife to do? If I had a farrier and a knife maker in front of me and both had to draw a knife without copying anyone else's design who do you think would get closer to what that specialized knife should look like?
 
AVigil said:
I understand what you are saying.
What would a hunter in 2018 say and recommend on improving a skinning knife that is not currently being done?
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At this point probably nothing as just about everything has been done. I am just talking about knife design in general for very specialized functions. I just think the person who spent 50 years doing a specific task has a better idea of what components a knife should have than a knife maker who has never done it once. Hunting knives obviously are some of the most common knives on the planet so they have been designed to death.
 
I'm going to disagree that experience always means expertise. Just because you do something 1000x with one tool, doesn't mean there isn't a better tool to do the job.
Sure, Billy Bob may have dressed out 50 deer over the last 20 years, but that doesn't mean he knows anything at all about ergonomics, blade shapes, steel types, or anything other than touching up the edge on his carbon steel "old hickory" that he bought at the thrift shop for $3.

Talk to 10 different hunters, and they probably use 10 different knives, from Buck 110s, to Sharpfingers, to Marbles ideals, to old kitchen knives, etc....
I once read where Ed Fowler tried to skin a bear with a slipjoint folding knife. :D Most of your average joe's who are processing their own game aren't using the best knives available. More often than not, they're probably just using what's there.

Jeter may be able to use a glove better than most, but I'll bet if he tried to make one it'd look like a 2nd graders art project. Then again, he's not catching all those balls because he's wearing the perfect glove either, but I digress...
 
knife to a gunfight said:
Jeter may be able to use a glove better than most, but I'll bet if he tried to make one it'd look like a 2nd graders art project. Then again, he's not catching all those balls because he's wearing the perfect glove either, but I digress...
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Which is exactly why I said that I'd go to Stan to get it made but Stan sure as hell won't know what features help a SS turn a double play better or a first baseman scoop one hoppers LOL.
 
Bearklr said:
I just think the person who spent 50 years doing a specific task has a better idea of what components a knife should have than a knife maker who has never done it once.
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Maybe, but then again how many hunters who have never made a knife actually know what it takes to make a successful design?

 
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