Longbow re; Fort Hunter Ligget have you seen the elk herd that using hangs out south of the main gate near where the bleachers were set up for the stinger demos? Mission San Antonio is a must see. It takes a few hours to crawl about the mission and ruins.
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SHTF: Avoiding Civilian Detention Camps
- Thread starter beezaur
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akennedy73, I get your point but I don't see it happening here. Trying to round up Americans would be like trying to herd cats.
They might get away with that in England, Australia or Russia, where people are easily controlled, but I don't see it happening in the US (except major cities). We have 300 million people here, spread across a vast land area with excellent and multiple roadways, extreme social mobility, Americans are independent as hogs on ice, and where the hell are you going to get a police force to control that many people?
They might get away with that in England, Australia or Russia, where people are easily controlled, but I don't see it happening in the US (except major cities). We have 300 million people here, spread across a vast land area with excellent and multiple roadways, extreme social mobility, Americans are independent as hogs on ice, and where the hell are you going to get a police force to control that many people?
And, don't forget, American have firearms, lots and lots of them, all shapes and sizes.
The authorities can only go but so far, before they would stir up a big ol can of whoop ass. It would end up looking like the scene in Frankenstein where the townspeople have torches and pitchforks...only they'd be shotguns and rifles.
In a large city, they could just block bridges and roadways and confine a large % of the population. outside of the cities, forget it.
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Further, we can't even control our southern border, and Guantanamo, our biggest and only detention center, is a Cuban joke. Detaining Americans will be nothing like we detained the Japanese in WWII, or the Islamists today. Just look at Katrina; we couldn't even keep people in the Superdome...thousands of criminals have escaped loose upon the land.
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Ummm, imports from Mexico? I understand they'll do jobs that no American citizen wants to do.:foot:
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Skunk, thank you! I didn't want to go so far as to say that, but the truth is that there are more guns in this country than anybody has a clue about. What is registered is a drop in the bucket. Every household in my neighborhood has grand dad's rifle or shotgun with a shitload of ammunition, cared for by his grandsons and granddaughters.
I respect our police, national guardsmen (maybe) and reservists but there aren't enough of them now and never will be to contain this population.
I respect our police, national guardsmen (maybe) and reservists but there aren't enough of them now and never will be to contain this population.
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Well, I sure hope you're all right about our ability to remain a free people. I'd like to think things are different here in America, that somehow something about the land or the people makes us different and that we won't walk down the same terrible roads that everyone seems to when times get really tough or the wrong people get too much power. But maybe I've just read too much history and after awhile it seems remarkable that people consistently do the same things over and over again - and after letting some of the most horrible things happen they swear they'll never let them happen again. Then a couple generations go by and if conditions are right it happens again. I guess after looking at everything that's happened in history I just don't have much faith that there's something special about this time and place in which I live that's going to prevent something terrible like detention camps from occurring. I'm not saying that they will occur - I just think, given the way of things, it could happen and I'll be better prepared understanding how such things come to develop so I'll spot it happening before I'm caught unawares.
I guess back in August of 2001 I used to have that sense about things - that "it can't happen here". I was naive and I thought I lived in a special place where bad things like terrorism just didn't happen. Then September 11 came and I watched the smoke from towers fill the sky. And I realized where I live isn't different than anywhere else. So when I read about Germany during the 30s, or Rwanda during the 90s, or Russia during the 20s and 30s, I don't make any assumptions that those are all things that "can't happen here".
A few years ago I would of thought anyone was crazy to suggest that an elected administration could get away with wiretapping citizens or suspending habeas corpus - I would of said, "You're crazy - people would be up in arms about that". Well, it's happened and nobody seems to care.
So yeah, I hope we all have the courage to remain free. And more than that I hope we never are put to the test of how far each of us are willing to go to remain free. Because if anyone does ever try to take our freedom, you can bet they'll make the cost of keeping it as high as they possibly can.
Coldwood, no problemo.
And just think, the way things are set up here, WHo is the Police force, National Guard, and Reservists? They are us! Our neighbors, our friends brother, etc. In a true emergency we would all assist them, just as they would assist us if some stupid orders were given.
Each and every one of them swears to uphold the LAW and the Constitution, not uphold what some crackpot may tell them to do, when they clearly know its wrong.
Truth is, in a true SHTF scenario, there will be enough gangbangers, looters, druggies, and straight up losers causing problems, that will keep all of us busy.
Oh yeah, and there is that little bit in the Constitution... I do think that We, the citizenry, are still the militia should all else fall through.
I don't have any worries that we will be rounded up by our own gov't.
As Coldwood has pointed out, it is logistically impossible.
More likely would be a Martial Law situation, curfews, restricitons on travel, where everyone is told to stay home and off the streets.
And just think, the way things are set up here, WHo is the Police force, National Guard, and Reservists? They are us! Our neighbors, our friends brother, etc. In a true emergency we would all assist them, just as they would assist us if some stupid orders were given.
Each and every one of them swears to uphold the LAW and the Constitution, not uphold what some crackpot may tell them to do, when they clearly know its wrong.
Truth is, in a true SHTF scenario, there will be enough gangbangers, looters, druggies, and straight up losers causing problems, that will keep all of us busy.
Oh yeah, and there is that little bit in the Constitution... I do think that We, the citizenry, are still the militia should all else fall through.
I don't have any worries that we will be rounded up by our own gov't.
As Coldwood has pointed out, it is logistically impossible.
More likely would be a Martial Law situation, curfews, restricitons on travel, where everyone is told to stay home and off the streets.
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Longbow? With all due respect to you...and of course you're just an innocent bystander here 
... screw illegal Mexican aliens. As somebody who is 1/4 Mexican, I can get away with saying that. My grandparents came here as honest legal immigrants, got honest jobs, their sons and daughters all served in WWII. But I have no use for the people who are now flooding the Rio Grande. They are "illegal aliens" ...trespassers, criminals...not legal immigrants. (sorry, that's off the topic, I'm just pissed...I should go to Whine N Cheese)
... screw illegal Mexican aliens. As somebody who is 1/4 Mexican, I can get away with saying that. My grandparents came here as honest legal immigrants, got honest jobs, their sons and daughters all served in WWII. But I have no use for the people who are now flooding the Rio Grande. They are "illegal aliens" ...trespassers, criminals...not legal immigrants. (sorry, that's off the topic, I'm just pissed...I should go to Whine N Cheese)Let's not forget those Japanese people were Americans.
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The real chokehold on the American people, especially in urban and suburban areas in the west and southwest, is water. Turn off the pumps and you instantly have a docile and controllable population. Of course, if you leave the pumps turned off too long, then you end up with some kind of a Mad Max post-apocalyptic hell....
Also, in America tyranny will not come on all at once, like a hurricane blowing up over the horizon. Rather, it will be slow, steady, and take generations to take hold. Think of the proverbial frog in the pot of boiling water.
By the way, the water's heating up. As far as I can tell, it's been slowly doing that since at least the late 1960s.
Also, in America tyranny will not come on all at once, like a hurricane blowing up over the horizon. Rather, it will be slow, steady, and take generations to take hold. Think of the proverbial frog in the pot of boiling water.
By the way, the water's heating up. As far as I can tell, it's been slowly doing that since at least the late 1960s.
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Dr G...well there's Americans, and then there's Americans. My Mexican grandmother worked hard to be accepted...and then my German grandfather and his kids worked hard to be accepted during WW 1 and WW 2...it wasn't easy, there were fights. And I expect the same will happen again.
Given Pearl Harbor, what did one expect the US government to do about Japanese immigrants? There was good reason for their internment. How many of us now want to do the same thing to Muslims, given 9-11? There is good reason for that.
It's not fair...if fairness is what you're looking for during war...but it is a safety issue, if you're looking for safety in war.
Are you afraid that racial profiling might be an issue? Are you afraid to face that question and see the rationale for it? Are you afraid to see the racism in war? Afraid to call me a racist? Afraid that you might also be a racist?
(I don't mean you personally Dr G, that's a general question)
The only thing worse than racism in war is religion. That's happening now, been happening for centuries.
Given Pearl Harbor, what did one expect the US government to do about Japanese immigrants? There was good reason for their internment. How many of us now want to do the same thing to Muslims, given 9-11? There is good reason for that.
It's not fair...if fairness is what you're looking for during war...but it is a safety issue, if you're looking for safety in war.
Are you afraid that racial profiling might be an issue? Are you afraid to face that question and see the rationale for it? Are you afraid to see the racism in war? Afraid to call me a racist? Afraid that you might also be a racist?
(I don't mean you personally Dr G, that's a general question)
The only thing worse than racism in war is religion. That's happening now, been happening for centuries.
What you said and....
Before Bush I was a Die-hard Republican now... I just want someone who puts the U.S. Constitution first... I joined the military (late in life after completing my college degree and establishing my career) because I believe the Constitution is what makes us better than any other country or people.
For those that think that by suspending a few constitutional rights here and there are worth it for "security" they are wrong.... there are no short cuts! Plus, we have brought down many, many criminal organizations operating within the realm of our Constitution.
Check history, there are many tyrants that seized power under the guise of serving the best interest of the population, only to reveal their true colors later... do not be fooled! Do not be one of the sheeple...
Man I need to quit drinking beer and posting late at night
Well this is not the forum for this, however I take extreme EXTREME exception to the implication that interned Japanese people were not Americans.
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Bulgron, I can see water as being a political issue. It already is in the south west, control of the Colarado River is an intra-state wide issue. It will not be in the north east, for a long while, we now have so much water we're swimming in it. No joke intended.
Regarding population control, I think we're going to be looking at birth control, immigration control and gun control. They are all going to be hard to control. One baby per family will become a new idea...teenage unwed mothers will be shunned, and should be now...we'll see a wall on the south west, we can't accept an unlimited flow of people through Mexico...gun control will come by attrition, no new permits, give em up when your dead, 72-hour safety checks at gun shows will kill 48-hour weekend gun shows (what's wrong with immediate safety checks with BATF, happens now at every WalMart, Gander Mountain and Dick's Country Store?)
I'll be dead before any of this happens, but changes will come.
Regarding population control, I think we're going to be looking at birth control, immigration control and gun control. They are all going to be hard to control. One baby per family will become a new idea...teenage unwed mothers will be shunned, and should be now...we'll see a wall on the south west, we can't accept an unlimited flow of people through Mexico...gun control will come by attrition, no new permits, give em up when your dead, 72-hour safety checks at gun shows will kill 48-hour weekend gun shows (what's wrong with immediate safety checks with BATF, happens now at every WalMart, Gander Mountain and Dick's Country Store?)
I'll be dead before any of this happens, but changes will come.
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Well Dr G, you can take extreme extreme all you want. I didn't say they weren't Americans, if in fact they were at all. I said they were suspects in a time of war. Many of my family, of German extraction, were also considered suspicious. Rightly so, at the time. Why the hell wouldn't they be?
And why is this not the forum for this, the topic is Avoiding Civilian Detention Camps?
And why is this not the forum for this, the topic is Avoiding Civilian Detention Camps?
For the same reason that white men, Christians or veterans weren't considered suspicious after Tim McVeigh was caught.
Because this forum is more for the practical wilderness & survival aspects of such avoidance, not the sociopolitical aspects of it. It's liable to turn into a non-practical brawl if we get into that stuff here.
I doubt guns would be much help if the govt somehow decided to round up folks. Citizens have no real leverage against govt resources. Just ask Randy Weaver or the Waco whackos. When the people can get a nuke or two, then that'll be one thing. Given the kinds of weaponry allowed citizens, the best we could hope for is a terrorist-type insurgency, the kind we're facing the other side of the globe.
Furthermore, rounding up citizens will only work if the citizens want it. Most likely, rounding up a certain segment of the population would be the government action, as history has shown.
Bottom line, show of force is one of the few things government does well. May we be blessed with relatively benign leaders.
Furthermore, rounding up citizens will only work if the citizens want it. Most likely, rounding up a certain segment of the population would be the government action, as history has shown.
Bottom line, show of force is one of the few things government does well. May we be blessed with relatively benign leaders.