Simple day hike turns tragic.

Smithhammer said:
Sure, but while it was supposedly somewhat cold out, it wasn't like these folks were preserved in ice. Artificial circulatory assistance or not, you're not thinking clearly if you expect someone to suddenly come back to life after 4 hours of CPR (not to mention how long they had been that way before they were discovered).
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People don't come back to life all of sudden like you seen on movies. It can happen but its EXTREMELY rare.

They were trying to extend the brief window where a successful resuscitation is possible before tissue death and brain damage happens.
 
PropThePolecat said:
Then you know, that there's nothing abnormal about 4 hours CPR.
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In remote, backcountry settings, I would agree. In standard frontcountry settings, I would say 4 hours is abnormal.

But there are some details I still don't understand;

1) They were supposedly found on the trail @ 7am. The report says the man was pronounced "dead at the scene." So did 4 hours of CPR take place between when he was found, and this pronouncement?

2) The kids were then taken to a hospital, then administered CPR, and then also pronounced "deceased." Surely, the hospital wasn't where the "4 hours of CPR" took place.

So...let's assume that they were found at 7am. Then presumably 4 hours of CPR takes place on site (?), until the man is pronounced dead at the scene, and then, the kids are transported to a hospital, where they are then also administered CPR, and then they are pronounced "deceased?"

It's probably just shoddy details on the part of the reporting, or I'm missing something here, but something in this timeline still just doesn't make sense to me.
 
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And the lesson learned here............argue about reported CPR details, instead of discussing what might have prevented CPR from even being needed.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Bear Claw Chris Lappe said:
And the lesson learned here............argue about reported CPR details, instead of discussing what might have prevented CPR from even being needed.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
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Hardly.

1) I'm truly not trying argue with anyone.

2) I was the first to admit it was a tangent.

3) How much discussion about what they should have been carrying with them could there possibly be? Seems pretty obvious.

4) You don't think the timeline of events described is a little odd? Cool. Guess it was just me. Carry on...
 
How is an "experienced hiker" caught in the woods in January with no gear? With kids you would think he would have a pack with snacks and an extra layer, kids complain a lot.

This was a senseless tragedy that could have been avoided 100% even when I go on a simple 3.5 miler I take:

Mystery Ranch 3DAP
Snacks, usually more than I need
an extra layer unless its July or another hot month
blister bandaids
Fixed blade
firestarter
too much water
emberlit stove & Ti cup with lid
light
PSK
leatherman
550 cord
cellphone
 
The latest report from our local news is that there was no CPR done on the father, only the 8 and 10 year old kids. The CPR was done on the trail, and was done so by volunteer search crews. There must have been some signs of life because the boys weren't pronounced dead until they were at the hospital.
 
Hey,

Yep a terrible Thing,,, I would say it might even be best to Take all weather gear along even if you dont expect bad weather m you never know when somthing might kick up and ruin your day,,,, TO bad for there family this happened.

On another note, Maybe the DEMOCRATS and Liberals can now have a discussion on wither or not to BAN COLD weather,,,,,
(( On another note, leave the politics in the Political Arena. ))

Lisa
 
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M.FREEZE said:
The latest report from our local news is that there was no CPR done on the father, only the 8 and 10 year old kids. The CPR was done on the trail, and was done so by volunteer search crews. There must have been some signs of life because the boys weren't pronounced dead until they were at the hospital.
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That makes a lot more sense.
 
VelocityMfg said:
On another note, Maybe the DEMOCRATS and Liberals can now have a discussion on wither or not to BAN COLD weather,,,,,

Lisa
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Wow, nice contribution to the discussion :thumbdn:
(( Please don't repeat what we didn't need in the first place. ))
 
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Wow, truly a tragic situation. We could all sit and speculate, but hypothermia really messes with the mind. It's really too bad they weren't better prepared.

My son and I went out last fall and the weather report when we left at noon said sunny and mid-70s until the next day. When we were on our return near dark, a nasty storm ripped through and we had to take cover in a cave of sorts. Fortunately, I had his jacket, some extra food,and disposable rain gear in my pack. We ended up ok, but what we saw was very close to being tornado conditions. Be prepared, stay calm, and know your limits.
 
Bear Claw Chris Lappe said:
And the lesson learned here............argue about reported CPR details, instead of discussing what might have prevented CPR from even being needed.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
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The talk doesn't have to be on firesteels, shelters and knives everytime a thread like this pops up.

First aid is as important a skill as everything else. Imagine if he had been found by a hiker or a member of this forum. Knowing when to start CPR, the point of it and when to stop is very important knowledge.
 
This is really sad. Hear about things like this all the time. Living in Colorado, I expect dramatic changes in the weather here. Especially when you climb in altitude. I always bring enough food/water/clothing/ways to make fire/shelter, ect, whenever me and my family go hiking. You just never know.....
 
SubaruSTi said:
How is an "experienced hiker" caught in the woods in January with no gear? With kids you would think he would have a pack with snacks and an extra layer, kids complain a lot.

This was a senseless tragedy that could have been avoided 100% even when I go on a simple 3.5 miler I take:
(list cut)
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Hypothermia deaths and rescues are both sad and commonplace. Suggested reading is "Not Without Peril", which is a sad, grim recounting of the deaths in the Presidential Range in with White Mountains of New Hampshire. To their credit, the USFS management policy remains allowing the trails to stay open, no matter what the weather it. Anybody can park their car in the Whites and walk to their death by sundown. It's as easy as falling off a log (and into a cold stream like, say, Nancy Brook named for young Nancy who was found frozen to death by its banks when she tried to walk to Conway in search of her lover who ran off with the money).

Not to disrupt either the CPR discussion or the safety equipment discussion (I have my own list of stuff and it's an important discussion) but IMO I think it bears underscoring that these deaths weren't a result of a lack of survival gear. They resulted from a failure to retreat in the face of known bad weather.

I've tracked weather and made informed decisions to press on in the face of it. Been forced to stay unplanned nights in the woods due to high rivers full of run-off. I've flirted with disaster with unpredictable bad winter weather on several occasions. Having the right gear provides extra margins of safety, to be sure. But....

The most dangerous step you ever take is when you leave the parking area and set foot on the trail.

The most important thing you can carry is a pre-determined set of criteria for bailing, turning around and retreating.

The most dangerous thing you can do is to assume that you will figure it out on the trail.
 
pinnah said:
....but IMO I think it bears underscoring that these deaths weren't a result of a lack of survival gear. They resulted from a failure to retreat in the face of known bad weather.
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Even more fundamentally, these deaths were the result of not using the most important piece of "survival" gear there is - the thing between your ears. Any gear you choose to carry, or that you overlook, is only an extension of that.
 
bear grylls would have found a dead deer, skinned it climbed inside and pissed on himself, surviving the night in style!
 
I pass no judgement on that man or his actions. But in my heart of hearts I believe simple male pride is what did him in. It happens to all of us. Sometimes you have to admit you are making a mistake and stop and return home, get the ride, whatever. We have all done it and some have paid with their lives unfortunately.
 
Well folks I am happy to post a story that ended much better, and it's because the lady in this story is someone I know. Her brother and I have been friends for 20+ years, and now live on the same street. They've been frantically looking for her since Monday.

http://www.wsiltv.com/news/local/Herrin-Woman-Survives-2-Days-in-Elements-187194461.html

HERRIN -- Authorities say a missing Herrin woman has been found after spending two days at the bottom of a steep embankment.

Billie R. Earl, 68, of Herrin, was last heard from at around 1 p.m. Monday.

Detective Scott Stefan of the Herrin Police Department tells News 3 that on Wednesday a passerby notice skid marks off Crenshaw Road east of Skyline Drive and went to investigate. Stefan says the man found Earl sitting outside her SUV at the bottom of the embankment.

According to Stefan, the vehicle left the road Monday, went through some brush and down the incline, landing just short of a strip pit.

Stefan says despite spending two days out in the elements without food or water, Earl was responsive and talking to emergency crews. She has been taken to Herrin Hospital for treatment.
 
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