SK-5 Bushman failed in latest "Joe-X" Destruction Test

coloradowildman said:
The thickness and the tanto design definitely helped it perform great in the tip test, etc. But having watched a number of those Joe X destruction tests on other Cold Steel and Ontario knives, the SK-5 broke in half easily when wacked on its spine compared to other steels. That's the same thing I saw in NutnFancy's video of an SK-5 Chaos. In that same video, NutnFancy did the same spine wack test to a thinner 4116 Cold Steel Outdoorsman Lite and he literally could not break it. This is important because soldiers especially buy the SK-5 Recon Tanto and would rely on their Tanto to be able to pry and take hard abuse in an emergency. The fact that a knife with half the thickness (the older Outdoorsman Lite) can take more abuse than an SK-5 blade that is twice as thick is troubling to say the least.
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Of course, you are right. Knowing the capabilities of a tool before getting into an extreme situation is useful knowledge. My perspective was a little narrower...if my Recon Tanto broke under that video abuse, for $35 I wouldn't be to upset. I get that it might be different for someone in harm's way.
 
The Joe-X vids are "interesting", but with a sample size of one I don't think they prove much, good or bad. Take one of the blades that survived, would the outcome be the same if he tested two of them? or ten? or 100?

I wish his tests had more real world use prior to just whacking it against a stronger surface.
 
I've not tested my SK5 Recon Tanto enough to determine the quality compared to the Carbon V version.

Any tests relating to toughness won't really be testing only the steel and heat treat but also the design since the SK5 version and Carbon V versions have different grinds.

The hollow grind makes the blade have less metal than the saber grind on the Carbon V version.
 
Benjamin Liu said:
So, the Recon Tanto isn't a good knife for chopping metal poles or smashing concrete?

What knife should I get if I need to cut metal poles and don't want to use a reciprocating saw?😀
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Well of course not Benjamin. What tests like this do show is the comparative strength of different steels, their tip strength, the quality of their heat treat, and the strength of their design. This might not be important to the knife collectors and recreational campers here, but it is important to soldiers, police, rescue teams, and those venturing off the trail in the wilderness. A knife might be called on to do anything for survival, rescue, or mission purposes. When destruction tests show that certain knives are very difficult or impossible to break while others break easily or with little effort, which one are you going to choose if you are in one of the categories I mentioned? I think the answer is obvious.
 
RDog said:
The Joe-X vids are "interesting", but with a sample size of one I don't think they prove much, good or bad. Take one of the blades that survived, would the outcome be the same if he tested two of them? or ten? or 100?

I wish his tests had more real world use prior to just whacking it against a stronger surface.
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I definitely agree that he should be more consistent with his tests.
 
It’s all relative, as mentioned above. The Taiwan SK5 in some knives is just “less than” some other steels in those knives. It’s priced less too. They’re truck knives to me, which is a useful thing. They aren’t collecting knives or super steel knives, though. They make great gifts for non-knife family members too!
 
I was watching one of his videos today. It was destructive testing on a Kabar Marine Corp kabar-type knife with serrations. Finally broke it by beating the everloving crap out of on a concrete block.

Since I never plan to do that kind of abuse to any of my knives, mine should last forever! :cool:
 
KenHash said:
Are these all Taiwan or China manufacture?
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I have two SRK in SK-5 bought 2-3 years ago. Also bought one for a friend last January. Pretty sure they all said Taiwan.

I watched Gideon's Tactical snap the SRK compact in SK-5 fairly easily. If I remember right, he was even surprised because he wasn't abusing it.

I believe the steel could be true 1080 composition, heat treated properly, but still act brittle because it was brought to a hardness that was higher than optimal.
Or I could be wrong. Still, I'm tempted to hit mine on a hardness tester and spectrometer. Any interest in this?
 
Bloodloss said:
I believe the steel could be true 1080 composition, heat treated properly, but still act brittle because it was brought to a hardness that was higher than optimal.
Or I could be wrong. Still, I'm tempted to hit mine on a hardness tester and spectrometer. Any interest in this?
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Yes, I would be very interested to see what you find - thanks.
 
coloradowildman said:
Yes, I would be very interested to see what you find - thanks.
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Although I have access to a spectrometer, opportunity is limited. It may take a while. Even then, my metallurgist may say no. If anyone has already broken one and wants to send me a piece, that would make it easier. I understand all the variables and lack of control, but you all would be just taking my word for any results I report anyway.
 
I prefer to use the correct tool for the job. If my s**t might end up in the fan I will not be carrying a $35 knife but one I know I can depend on and I will spend the money needed on it. I think these tests are ludicrous, but that's me.
 
nephron said:
I prefer to use the correct tool for the job. If my s**t might end up in the fan I will not be carrying a $35 knife but one I know I can depend on and I will spend the money needed on it. I think these tests are ludicrous, but that's me.
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Until the recent price increase, there were many Bucks and Ontarios for $35-40 that I have depended on and would depend on if the crap hit the fan. You don't need a $400 Busse to survive. But I would agree that going too cheap on anything can get you into trouble. But there are plenty of great knives out there in the lower price range that would do the job just fine.

As for the tests being ludicrous, I think Joe-X acts a bit wacky and I don't like that he doesn't standardize his tests. But I think destruction tests are very helpful. Any knife labeled as a survival or soldier knife should be able to withstand hard abuse. Of course, all of the collectors here get pissed because a knife they bought may have failed in one of the tests and it hurts their resale value. I don't give a crap about that. What I care about is a survival tool being tough enough to save the day when needed. That's what is marketed to buyers and why buyers spend their hard earned money on these knives. If they break easily they are worthless outside of being a safe queen.
 
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coloradowildman said:
Until the recent price increase, there were many Bucks and Ontarios for $35-40 that I have depended on and would depend on if the crap hit the fan. You don't need a $400 Busse to survive. But I would agree that going too cheap on anything can get you into trouble. But there are plenty of great knives out there in the lower price range that would do the job just fine.

As for the tests being ludicrous, I think Joe-X acts a bit wacky and I don't like that he doesn't standardize his tests. But I think destruction tests are very helpful. Any knife labeled as a survival or soldier knife should be able to withstand hard abuse. Of course, all of the collectors here get pissed because a knife they bought may have failed in one of the tests and it hurts their resale value. I don't give a crap about that. What I care about is a survival tool being tough enough to save the day when needed. That's what is marketed to buyers and why buyers spend their hard earned money on these knives. If they break easily they are worthless outside of being a safe queen.
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I value almost any honest hard use and even destruct testing of knives that claim to be for survival / hard use .

But most of these tests are far from being very scientific , so need to be taken with a "train[sic] of salt " .

With many mass produced knives , the quality will be inconsistent , especially with the steels more sensitive to improper HT .

Combined with almost non- existent QC , for many companies , the quality and performance of a given model can vary enormously .

These problems are not just limited to value knives , but probably are worse due to production cost cutting .

There is also much consumer demand for edge retention / hardness over the kind of toughness needed to do well in these tests .

Finally : the precise ways you apply force to any blade in extreme hard use makes a huge difference . Both in efficacy of your work and damage to your tools .

It's difficult to gauge from most of these videos exactly how "skillfully " used knives would perform vs under the entertaining spastic antics of clowns in gas masks .
 
This has nothing to do with collectors scared their knives would lose value.

I doubt anyone thinks a current Recon Tanto or Bushman will increase in values all that much.

It is also true that destruction tests do nothing about collector value.

I doubt various fighting knives with high collector value would hold up well to such tests.

There are also knives that almost everyone into knives know are useless but still have high collector value. Check the prices on the Buckmaster on ebay.

Those of us scoffing at such stupid tests actually use knives. I've used my Carbon V Recon Tanto extensively for many years and it held up to everything. I've chopped down trees with it but never chopped metal poles. I've also used my Bushman (purchased in 2000) as a beater and put that through a lot, including throwing it as a spear into wooden targets, and it held up.

I don't doubt that some of the new CS knives might have problems, but just because a knife breaks when someone chops a pole with it doesn't mean the knife is bad.

I also pointed out in a previous post that the hollow grind which has much less metal that the older saber grind might be a factor in a weaker blade, so it might not only be the steel.

I've seen videos and read of tests where many different knives failed due to destruction testing, including military knives. A knife being a "soldier's knife" does not mean it won't break. I've also read posts from soldiers who used the Recon Tanto (Carbon V,) original 1980s Recon Tanto, and Original Tanto extensively when deployed.

I've also had blades fail in normal use, such as a SOG axe I had which got a large chip when chopping off branches on a pine limb I cut, or the edge rolling a small chips from my 2mm CS machetes.
 
That Recon tanto took quite a bit of abuse before it snapped....and it broke a third of the way down from the tip. It is still usable to pry or whatever, and there is 2/3rd of the cutting edge left. I guy or gal who is creative could make do and probably get out of harm's way with what is left of that knife. Still, if I was concerned about the Recon tanto, and wanted to carry a carbon steel fixed blade, I might consider TOPS, Becker, ESSE, KA-BAR ect. I think all those companies offer discounts to our men and women in uniform.
 
So I just broke my own rule about not watching Youtube knife-test videos. And not surprisingly, after watching the "JoeX" Bushman video, my reason for the rule was confirmed.

That was one of the DUMBEST things I've ever seen on Youtube. And that's really saying something.

1. The guy stabs the Bushman into a log and pries the blade out laterally, and the tip bends.

2. The guy HAMMERS the blade deep into a log with a rock, and repeatedly and forcefully pries laterally with his full body weight, and the blade breaks.

3. The guy hammers on a rock with the spine of the knife. Why? I have no idea.

And then the guy declares the knife to be "crap" and "F'd up". No, I'd say the guy who broke the knife is a complete moron. To declare the knife as "crap" because it broke from extreme, irrational abuse, when it's obvious that he was determined to break the knife, only verifies in my mind the stupidity of Youtube "knife test" destruction videos.

I don't mean to offend anyone, but in my opinion, the only thing dumber than that video is any suggestion that video contains any actual value.

For those who say "But I want to know how tough my knife is in case I'm in a survival situation". Ok, in what possible "survival" situation would you need to perform any of the actions I described above? That's not "survival", that's just destructive abuse, which would be the dumbest thing you could do with your knife in a survival situation.

I'm ashamed of myself for giving that moron a single "view" for his video.

But hey, if you like such videos, good for you, whatever floats your boat.

And for the record, I don't own a Bushman. In fact I haven't bought any Cold Steel fixed-blade in about 20 years. So I couldn't care less about resale value. Dumb is dumb, and I call it as such when I see it.
 
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^ yep. I can take any knife that length in any steel heat treated to be a knife that is 3/32" 2.5mm thick and pound it inches into a stump and break it or bend it beyond use permanently with my weight thrown into it over and over. it means zero as sk5 steel used is a bad steel.....

for entertainment i could see why someone might like his videos. ill never do these things with my knives cause I dont need to see how well they'll do trying to snap them in 2.

what he is doing is earning views and revenue from people gawking and chattering about it. good for him.....hope he does well with it.
 
I like these type videos for one simple reason: To watch what it takes to break a knife. Is it scientific? Please. Is it realistic? Grow up. Is it based on reality? I want whatever it is your smoking.

Is it useful? Absolutely.

I watch some guy whale on a knife, hammering the everloving crap out of it against a concrete block and it takes +dozen plus hits before it breaks - The message is simple: Don't hammer a knife against a concrete block. Same with the stabbing/torquing/bending/breaking operations - don't do it. You can think about it, but doooon't do it!*

Which now leads us to the long time LCT/CS knife torture videos: same conclusion. The fact that they were willing to do it to their own knives says a lot about LCT/CSs integrity, IMO.

* Obviously, I'm channeling Buford here. It's Saturday evening and the Tequila is hitting it's spot: Sue Me!
 
Albin said:
I like these type videos for one simple reason: To watch what it takes to break a knife. Is it scientific? Please. Is it realistic? Grow up. Is it based on reality? I want whatever it is your smoking.

Is it useful? Absolutely.

I watch some guy whale on a knife, hammering the everloving crap out of it against a concrete block and it takes +dozen plus hits before it breaks - The message is simple: Don't hammer a knife against a concrete block. Same with the stabbing/torquing/bending/breaking operations - don't do it. You can think about it, but doooon't do it!*

Which now leads us to the long time LCT/CS knife torture videos: same conclusion. The fact that they were willing to do it to their own knives says a lot about LCT/CSs integrity, IMO.

* Obviously, I'm channeling Buford here. It's Saturday evening and the Tequila is hitting it's spot: Sue Me!
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done right it can be useful.....see Nathan's destruction video of his 3v...

 
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