Skipping rungs on the quality ladder?

[TacOpsEDC]

Kaosu and Ankerson hit the nail on the head.

A $300-400+ custom isn't going to move mountains.

If you know what makes a custom knife then ull know almost instantly why it cost what it does.

If one doesn't think they'll appreciate the differences then I'd suggest staying in the price range they feel the most comfortable.

I for one love custom pieces and will continue to enjoy each one

 

[Humint]

For the knives (Folders) I carry and use the most, they are in that range because they give me what I need based on what I use my knives for.

The folder that is in my pocket and the one that gets used the most is this one:

This is all you need to know. Good post Jim. Plus in my opinion skip the higher priced knives. This does not have the fit and finish that a Sebenza has but I feel the Military outclasses it in all other aspects. I spent a lot of money on my knife journey just to realize this is the perfect knife for me. However, the real question remains if I had not bought all of those expensive knives, would I have realized how perfect this knife is? Or would I have been left wondering if is this as good as a Sebenza (or any other higher priced knives)? Who knows.

 

[Thalestin]

I agree completely. midtechs like sebenzas, striders, hinderer etc, are mayybbeee 0.05% "better" than a $150 spyderco. The whole "fit and finish" value of these knives is massively over blown on forums in my opinion. Meanwhile the spyderco that costs half as much has better materials, ergonomics, and blade geometry. I know what I'll choose.

Of course, it's all subjective. If that fraction of a percent of "fit and finish" makes you want to pay double, then get it.

I also agree. Fit and finish is pretty meaningless when a knife is used anyways. I feel that it is mostly knife fondlers that really get their worth out of perfect finish. A scratched blade and scales kind of take that perfection away anyways . I love my sebenza but honestly for an actual user I don't see it being better than my benchmades or spyders.

 

[Ankerson]

This is all you need to know. Good post Jim. Plus in my opinion skip the higher priced knives. This does not have the fit and finish that a Sebenza has but I feel the Military outclasses it in all other aspects. I spent a lot of money on my knife journey just to realize this is the perfect knife for me. However, the real question remains if I had not bought all of those expensive knives, would I have realized how perfect this knife is? Or would I have been left wondering if is this as good as a Sebenza (or any other higher priced knives)? Who knows.

I still have most of my high end knives, but I use the Military more because it works the best for me.

I do think a person really needs to experience the different levels and types of knives to get 1st hand experience and to finally settle on what works the best for them.

And that's what it's really all about in the end..... At least for me it is anyway.

 

[Humint]

I still have most of my high end knives, but I use the Military more because it works the best for me.

I do think a person really needs to experience the different levels and types of knives to get 1st hand experience and to finally settle on what works the best for them.

And that's what it's really all about in the end..... At least for me it is anyway.

I agree on experiencing each level of knife classes. It will flush out any doubts and and really show each individual what they want in a knife and where they feel they can ignore some areas and focus on others (fit and finish, ergos', steel) etc. I have since sold ever knife I owned (50+) including Sebenzas and Striders as I know the Military is it for me and I won't carry anything else (except a FRN Dragonfly II as a backup companion to the Military)

 

[Ankerson]

I agree on experiencing each level of knife classes. It will flush out any doubts and and really show each individual what they want in a knife and where they feel they can ignore some areas and focus on others (fit and finish, ergos', steel) etc. I have since sold ever knife I owned (50+) including Sebenzas and Striders as I know the Military is it for me and I won't carry anything else (except a FRN Dragonfly II as a backup companion to the Military)

Yeah I could sell every folder I own except for my Military's and the 2 ZAANS..... That would be around 150+ knives and be completely happy at this point and likely never buy another folder except for sprint run Military's.

 

[kaosu04]

It's often very amusing comparing this hobby to the watch world. Think the world of high end cutlery doesn't make much sense? The watch world will blow your mind. Most people are very surprised to hear that rolexes are considered to be mid end watches. More often than not, the majority of what you're paying for is something you will never even be able too see (100% of the time in the case of rolexes as they have no display back models)

 

[Ankerson]

It's often very amusing comparing this hobby to the watch world. Think the world of high end cutlery doesn't make much sense? The watch world will blow your mind. Most people are very surprised to hear that rolex is considered to be mid end watches.

The Watch world is talking serious money and I could never justify spending that kind of cash just to tell what time it is when I don't even wear a watch and haven't for decades now...

 

[Humint]

Yeah I could sell every folder I own except for my Military's and the 2 ZAANS..... That would be around 150+ knives and be completely happy at this point and likely never buy another folder except for sprint run Military's.

Correction: I will buy another knife again. Any and all sprint run Millie's that come out.

 

[Humint]

The Watch world is talking serious money and I could never justify spending that kind of cash just to tell what time it is when I don't even wear a watch and haven't for decades now...

I agree. The watch world is amazing to "watch." Pick up a high-end watch magazine and be prepared to be amazed with the prices some of these watches are sold at. Makes the cost of a BMW look like a morning coffee run. I think the high-end watch world or high-end knife really comes down to individuals loving the precision in which these products are produced with. I agree in some sense that holding a high-end watch or a high-end custom knife is amazing when you see the level of fit and finish that it is executed with especially the hand-made ones. But in the end the $36K watch or $1K knife doesn't tell the time better then my G-Shock or cut better than my Military. But to each their own

 

[Ankerson]

I agree. The watch world is amazing to "watch." Pick up a high-end watch magazine and be prepared to be amazed with the prices some of these watches are sold at. Makes the cost of a BMW look like a morning coffee run. I think the high-end watch world or high-end knife really comes down to individuals loving the precision in which these products are produced with. I agree in some sense that holding a high-end watch or a high-end custom knife is amazing when you see the level of fit and finish that it is executed with especially the hand-made ones. But in the end the $36K watch or $1K knife doesn't tell the time better then my G-Shock or cut better than my Military. But to each their own

Oh, I can and do appreciate the high end watches.

I also know that I will never be able afford one unless I won the lottery and even then I doubt I would buy one.

 

[Ken44]

Why skip rungs.
There are good knives at many price points.

I've got many Case knives(and a few other brands of Traditional knives) I like alot that didn't cost much.
I've also got several Spyderco's, Benchmades, and Sebenza's.
All of my fixed blades are Customs, and Busse, but there are good fixed blades out there for much less.

 

[Ankerson]

Something like this comparison, a $100 knife (Para 2) to a $400+ knife (ZAAN).

About the same size, materials are different, blade steel is the same (S30V), fit and finish are at 2 different levels.

There is a real difference between the 2 knives, people just need to decide for themselves if that difference is worth it to them.

Both are great knives, one isn't necessarily better than the other as better is a subjective term, one is higher end than the other due to the workmanship and materials and that is were the extra cost comes from.

 

[Ankerson]

This is one of the best most informative threads I have seen in General in a very long time and it should be bookmarked and or made sticky.

 

[NjHart]

Yeah I could sell every folder I own except for my Military's and the 2 ZAANS..... That would be around 150+ knives and be completely happy at this point and likely never buy another folder except for sprint run Military's.

This is sort of the principle I try to abide by, but I sort of had a different way of getting there. I did excessive amounts of research when I started getting into knives. Thanks to the members here I have a pretty good list of knives to consider their various virtues and I walked into the nearest (about an hour and a half drive) brick and mortar store that had most of them and handled and examined them all of the the course of a couple of hours. Though its certainly not the same for everyone, I picked up a Sebenza (knowing they made a left handed variety, though it wasn't in store) and I could tell that it was by far my favorite of any that I had seen in any price range (from $40 spydercos up to a $2,200 custom Strider). At the end of the day, even though it was expensive, and certainly not twice the knife of a $200 spyderco or similar, I could be happy never buying another folder. It doesn't mean I won't but I would be satisfied with that.

I may have, and definitely did, skip some rungs in the specific ladder, but I selected one that I'm ok ending on. If and when I buy others it'll be for fun or a niche purpose, not because I need to or want to climb the knife upgrade ladder. And oddly enough it has sort of opened interesting doors so to speak. Two months ago I wouldn't have considered what type of fixed blade I want because I was focused on my folders. If I had worked on climbing the ladder so to speak I would still be fixated on what my next rung could be and when, and now I can more freely venture out. A Busse fixed blade will certainly get less use than my folder, but now I feel I can more freely wait and save and pick out the perfect medium fixed blade, and after that maybe a small folder, and then maybe a large fixed blade, etc. I know no knife is perfect, but designed obsolescence for me personally would pigeon hole me into focusing on one small area too long rather than really getting to experience brilliant knife making in all areas.

 

[bpeezer]

This took off a lot more than I expected. Maybe I'll have to get one great user knife and one just for fun thanks for all the suggestions!

 

[Presa canary]

I like the knife/watch comparison. Sure both of these knives will cut, and both these watches tell time. The only accessories I wear daily are a watch and knife. Some are used for hard use " beaters" some you take a little bit extra care of. I personally need both.

 

[MRaymond]

I would suggest the Spyderco Gayle Bradley.That knife will outclass knives twice its price.

I was going to suggest the same. I started with $100.00 knives myself. I found that I kept "wanting". I had benchmade, some higher end Spyderco's (para 2, CF/M390 Military, Gayle Bradley), ZT 0550 and thought they were all fantastic. And they are. If you don't ever want to spend a lot of money on a single knife, and you can be satisfied with that, look no further than the Gayle Bradley from Spyderco (or the military for that matter).

That being said, I sold everything and got a sebenza. I went from about 6 $100-$300 knives to 2 that I rotate.

This:

and This:

I am not the collector type per se. I like to use my knives and I get more satisfaction having a couple really solid knives than several mid grade (although very good) knives.

I think this is a highly personal thing. For me, it isn't a status thing, nobody I know has any clue about what these knives are or what they cost. I just really appreciate best in class manufacturing, tolerences, etc.

I did however go to a gun show this weekend and held a Military again and remembered how great it was for food prep while camping. Then after reading through this thread, I think a military is definitely deserves a spot in the rotation again. Thanks A LOT Ankerson.......

 

[goodeyesniper]

Something like this comparison, a $100 knife (Para 2) to a $400+ knife (ZAAN).

About the same size, materials are different, blade steel is the same (S30V), fit and finish are at 2 different levels.

Where it gets trickier is when you compare a sprint run or similar to these "mid techs". For instance, my ti/g10 Millie compared to a CRK.

So, $200 versus $400, but in this case the cheaper one actually has "better" steel (or at least "higher end" steel, better is subjective), and the same materials used, with minor differences....

I think the only thing you can put on paper that the CRK has "better" is the pivot system? Even still, the Millie opens very smoothly, it's barely a difference. Maybe you could count the decorative embellishments on the CRK Ti handle, too...?

This thing has all the traits of a mid tech and beyond, with just about the only thing you can put a finger on about "inferior" fit and finish is that one line of jimping was cut unevenly... Is that enough to want to spend double on a lesser performing knife? Not for me.

When people talk about the precision of a CRK being in the thousandths of an inch, I feel like that is purely in their head, because in a knife I truly think you can not observe this difference with our limited sense of sight and touch. I truly believe if they compared a typical ti frame lock spyderco, or other production folder, to a "mid tech" with an objective, unbiased eye they would not be able to quantify the mid tech as better...

lockup. (notice that crooked jimping? the horror!)

better materials on the CRK? Not in my opinion.

When it comes down to it, Ti is soft, so give it a couple weeks and both will have some dings and scratches, making that infinitesimal level of f&f even less noticeable. And blades will be scratched and sharpened and dirty...

 

[getout87]

Where it gets trickier is when you compare a sprint run or similar to these "mid techs". For instance, my ti/g10 Millie compared to a CRK.

So, $200 versus $400, but in this case the cheaper one actually has "better" steel (or at least "higher end" steel, better is subjective), and the same materials used, with minor differences....

I think the only thing you can put on paper that the CRK has "better" is the pivot system? Even still, the Millie opens very smoothly, it's barely a difference. Maybe you could count the decorative embellishments on the CRK Ti handle, too...?

This thing has all the traits of a mid tech and beyond, with just about the only thing you can put a finger on about "inferior" fit and finish is that one line of jimping was cut unevenly... Is that enough to want to spend double on a lesser performing knife? Not for me.

When people talk about the precision of a CRK being in the thousandths of an inch, I feel like that is purely in their head, because in a knife I truly think you can not observe this difference with our limited sense of sight and touch. I truly believe if they compared a typical ti frame lock spyderco, or other production folder, to a "mid tech" with an objective, unbiased eye they would not be able to quantify the mid tech as better...

lockup. (notice that crooked jimping? the horror!)

better materials on the CRK? Not in my opinion.

When it comes down to it, Ti is soft, so give it a couple weeks and both will have some dings and scratches, making that infinitesimal level of f&f even less noticeable. And blades will be scratched and sharpened and dirty...

That's a valid point, also proving you are apparently not the demographic for CRKs. People buy what they want, and if they appreciate the CRK more and don't mind spending the money, then by all means. I have a friend that has 40 or 50 knives, and he hasn't paid more than $60 for any one of them. He's just as happy with a $30 knife as I am with something more expensive. I wish I were that way sometimes, but I'm not. I buy what makes me happy and what I enjoy carrying.