Skipping rungs on the quality ladder?

[OFCC Dave]

I am not the type to post a "Hi, my name is..." thread, but I did find this discussion interesting enough to warrant post number one, mostly becasue I can't figure out why I have been browsing this forum. Maybe middle age has me seeking things of permanence (not web forums, but knives).

I still have my first knife, a cub scout folder, carbon steel blade. At various points I've picked up a k-bar USMC fighter, which was at that point, an "expensive" knife in my world. Then, at an NRA convention,I discovered Benchmade (which I did not buy, but wanted), and SOG (bought a Flash II and a Flash I), and CRKT (bought a Rave). So, things were well under control. Still, my "nicest" knife was a Browning Hunter, which has gutted many deer.

Then an Al Mar Mini SERT happened. A Randall Model 15 followed close behind, and earned the distinction of becoming the first knife to join a long list of guns and audio equipment to strengthen our marriage through tempering. It was the first knife that warranted discussion, though fortunately for me, after the fact.

So now I've noticed Backwoods Customs which must be not far from me somewhere in Ohio, and Steingass. But honestly, would I ever carry them or use them? As it is, I don't carry the Al Mar, becasue I am afraid I'll lose it (the pocket clip is not as tight or grabby as I like).

So anyway, nice site, even nicer knives. This could go badly.

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hi OFCC Dave,

Welcome to the Blade forums.

Hey BPeezer,

Great question. I think the first thing that you'll need to consider is country of origin. Those low cost knives are often made in China and the low cost is the result of the dollar / Yuan difference. As you get into other countries of origin, the cost will go up.

I'm with Ken44 on, "why skip rungs?" Each purchase will teach you more about the knives and what makes them different. The first will be steel and steels do perform differently. As you learn to see the difference, you'll have a better understanding as to why there is a cost difference.

I also agree with Jim and others that have mentioned the $130 - $200 range will bering the best value before getting into exotic materials.

sal

 

[bpeezer]

Hi OFCC Dave,

Welcome to the Blade forums.

Hey BPeezer,

Great question. I think the first thing that you'll need to consider is country of origin. Those low cost knives are often made in China and the low cost is the result of the dollar / Yuan difference. As you get into other countries of origin, the cost will go up.

I'm with Ken44 on, "why skip rungs?" Each purchase will teach you more about the knives and what makes them different. The first will be steel and steels do perform differently. As you learn to see the difference, you'll have a better understanding as to why there is a cost difference.

I also agree with Jim and others that have mentioned the $130 - $200 range will bering the best value before getting into exotic materials.

sal

Thanks Sal, I'll take that into consideration. Getting one knife in the $60-$80 range won't set my timeline back for getting a more expensive knife, so I may do that first.

 

[Ankerson]

Where it gets trickier is when you compare a sprint run or similar to these "mid techs". For instance, my ti/g10 Millie compared to a CRK.

So, $200 versus $400, but in this case the cheaper one actually has "better" steel (or at least "higher end" steel, better is subjective), and the same materials used, with minor differences....

I think the only thing you can put on paper that the CRK has "better" is the pivot system? Even still, the Millie opens very smoothly, it's barely a difference. Maybe you could count the decorative embellishments on the CRK Ti handle, too...?

This thing has all the traits of a mid tech and beyond, with just about the only thing you can put a finger on about "inferior" fit and finish is that one line of jimping was cut unevenly... Is that enough to want to spend double on a lesser performing knife? Not for me.

When people talk about the precision of a CRK being in the thousandths of an inch, I feel like that is purely in their head, because in a knife I truly think you can not observe this difference with our limited sense of sight and touch. I truly believe if they compared a typical ti frame lock spyderco, or other production folder, to a "mid tech" with an objective, unbiased eye they would not be able to quantify the mid tech as better...

lockup. (notice that crooked jimping? the horror!)


better materials on the CRK? Not in my opinion.

When it comes down to it, Ti is soft, so give it a couple weeks and both will have some dings and scratches, making that infinitesimal level of f&f even less noticeable. And blades will be scratched and sharpened and dirty...

Like I pointed out in my other post:

Something like this comparison, a $100 knife (Para 2) to a $400+ knife (ZAAN).

About the same size, materials are different, blade steel is the same (S30V), fit and finish are at 2 different levels.

There is a real difference between the 2 knives, people just need to decide for themselves if that difference is worth it to them.

Both are great knives, one isn't necessarily better than the other as better is a subjective term, one is higher end than the other due to the workmanship and materials and that is were the extra cost comes from.

The differences are really there in comparing even that Military to the CRK, yes the Military has a higher end steel (CPM M4 vs S30V)..

I believe CRK's tolerances are in the .00001", That's 10 thousands of an inch and no it's not in people's heads, it's published fact.

Some things might be noticeable, others may or may not be depending on the individual looking at the knives.

People have to decide for themselves.

 

[bpeezer]

I believe CRK's tolerances are in the .00001", That's 10 thousands of an inch and no it's not in people's heads, it's published fact.

Some things might be noticeable, others may or may not be depending on the individual looking at the knives.

People have to decide for themselves.

One extra zero in there I don't have experience with tolerances like this on knives, but in other machining work I have seen parts fail because they are two 10 thousandths out of spec...many CNC machines are only accurate to .0006" (six 10 thousandths), and that's not accurate enough for a lot of applications. You can frequently feel the difference with every couple of 10 thousandths.

 

[jhakken]

Great discussion. I'm with Sal about not skipping rungs. I started learning about knives a few years ago. I've enjoyed learning about super steels as I moved up the ladder. I'm currently happily stuck with my Spyderco Gayle Bradley at the top. I've been content to rest here for about a year. I also carry an Urban often. For about a hundred bucks you can get a taste of the custom fixed blade market (sure there are hammer marks, part of the attaction for me) and even commission your own style 6" fixed blade. Enjoy the journey, I say.