Slicer: How much is enough?

singularity35

singularity35

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Mar 1, 2010
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The increasing demand for FFG blades on folders leading to laser like slicing performance is all to the good but on the other hand, leads also to thinner and more fragile blades. So, in your opinion, how much of a good thing becomes to much? How much of a slicer do you really need in a knife for everyday chores?
 
I'm really a fan of the hollow grind on the Gayle Bradley. That blade shape really lends itself well to slicing and some light prying if needed in a pinch. I completely agree thinner blades is not always a good thing.
 
there have been fullt flat/full hollow ground blades of 1/16" stock for decades, so I don't think we've gotten too thin overall.
 
Um, unless I'm wrong full flat grind and hollow grind or two totally and completely different grinds, moreover full flat grinds are stronger overall than hollow grind blades from what I've read and been told. In fact full flat grinds are one of the stronger types of grinds and supposed to be the most functional overall i.e. providing both strength and decent slicing. While on the other hand a hollow grind is one of the weakest overall grinds as it thins the blade out the most and is not recommenced for any kind of "hard use" or "abuse" type situations.

So I'm not sure if you have a grind question or an overall question about how thin their making blades regardless of the grind?
 
not a problem for myself since i edc two blades in town & country.love that ffg & after watching unit's tire cutting with his scapel edge i'm going to bevel mine back even thinner.
dennis
 
I actually do carry a FFG ZDP Endura that I've thinned down to 22 degrees inclusive(the lowest I can get with my DMT aligner). I think that the slicing and cutting performance of this knife is really excellent. I hope that my OP will not be confused as meaning that I don't like knives like my FFG Endura. However, is more cutting performance needed by the majority of users? If so will this lead to ever thinner blades? Additionally, blades 1 mm thick will probably approach light saber slicing performance, but will a 1 mm thick blade still be practical with the present state of metallurgy?

I hope those questions make some kind of sense. :D


By the way I hope this thread won't turn out to be another hard use vs. slicer discussion(I'm really tired of that). My purpose is to discuss how far increasing cutting performance will affect practicality.
 
so I make my knives FFG because I am not yet good enough to get clean bevels. Its at 64 Rc, its 1/8" thick and 7/8" wide FFG so my included edge angle comes out to be 12 degrees, Is that bad? they cut really well, and I only use them to cut, no prying

and to respond to your OP I think most people Cary at least 2 knives so they can afford a supper thin scalpel/razer, and a beefier knife, and a multi tool, and a fixed blade, and a hatchet, and a portable battery operated chainsaw...
 
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Nebulae said:
so I make my knives FFG because I am not yet good enough to get clean bevels, and my included edge angle comes out to be 12 degrees, oh and its at 64 Rc. its 1/8" thick and 7/8" wide FFG Is that bad? they cut really well, and I only use them to cut no prying
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I didn't say this this was bad. 3mm is still quite capable as shown in those tire cutting videos that Unit does. What I'm saying is, in the quest for more cutting performance, will knifemakers be putting out thinner blades? how thin will they be? 1.5 mm? 1mm?

Nebulae said:
and to respond to your OP I think most people carry at least 2 knives do they can afford a supper thin scalpel/razer, and a beefier knife, and a multi tool, and a fixed blade, and a hatchet, and a portable battery operated chainsaw...
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I actually do, as well. It's not like this is not a common practice among knife nuts. :D

PS: I fixed the bolded part. :D
 
i personally despise hollowground blades, especially when they start real low

ffg blades cut reallly well, but you are right singularity, they are a bit flimsy for my taste

my personal favorite is a high flat grind, (i guess you could call it a saber grind, but that in my mind is where the grind starts at about halfway point) starting at about 3/4 the way up.

perfect example is the BM rift
 
No No I was just wondering if I should seriously consider making them a bit thicker/more robust, especially if I am going to give one to a friend who is not a real knife person.
 
singularity35 said:
The increasing demand for FFG blades on folders leading to laser like slicing performance is all to the good but on the other hand, leads also to thinner and more fragile blades. So, in your opinion, how much of a good thing becomes to much? How much of a slicer do you really need in a knife for everyday chores?
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Yes, how much of a slicer do you really need? do you cut a lot of cardboard boxes? A lot of tires? A lot of paper? fruit?

What material and how much of it do you usually cut each day?
 
on the other hand how much hard use do you put your knife to every day? how much battoning, or prying?
 
We just take our passion a little too seriously simple carbon steel with a simple grind thick or thin will still cut, but we want performance, which is why we are here haveing this discussion
 
Nebulae said:
on the other hand how much hard use do you put your knife to every day? how much battoning, or prying?
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WTF? what's that got to do with this? Does this mean that you don't use your knife a lot? :D

Why are you now trying to turn this into a hard use vs. slicer discussion?
 
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Eh, variety is nice. Never had a problem with the thinner FFG blades but I would pick a more stout grind and thickness if I felt the need for harder uses/abuses.
 
spoonrobot said:
Eh, variety is nice. Never had a problem with the thinner FFG blades but I would pick a more stout grind and thickness if I felt the need for harder uses/abuses.
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As the FFG blades are today, they are quite sufficient for the cutting tasks they are meant for.

Let me put it another way, If knifemakers were to put out knives with blades 1.5 or 1 mm thick just to satisfy the demand for more cutting performance, would these knives still have a practical general utility? or would they just be special purpose knives?
 
singularity35 said:
The increasing demand for FFG blades on folders leading to laser like slicing performance is all to the good but on the other hand, leads also to thinner and more fragile blades. So, in your opinion, how much of a good thing becomes to much?
Click to expand...
I think you are looking at the problem from the wrong side. In general as thin as the steel, or whatever the blade material is better for cutting and chopping.
If the blade is made out of 0.01mm thick material that can withstand edc chores, or even hard use, why would you want thicker blade?

I have 1mm thick, 62HRC CPM 3V blade and it cuts very good. Does stand up for what it was designed. If it could do the same at half or quarter of its current thickness I really wouldn't mind.
 
singularity35 said:
Let me put it another way, If knifemakers were to put out knives with blades 1.5 or 1 mm thick just to satisfy the demand for more cutting performance, would these knives still have a practical general utility? or would they just be special purpose knives?
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a knife is already a special purpose tool, meant for cutting.

more seriously i think that the limit in term of thickness is the opinel.

any thinner than that and it's too thin for general use. i already wouldn't use it for anything else than cuttng even if the carbon steel they use is pretty tough.

i'm talking both stock thickness and edge thickness here.
 
I think that is why Opinels have such a high reputation as cutters. Nothing about those knives is "heavy duty", but for EDC they are, in fact, a good knife to have for ordinary cutting chores. I think that is why most people have a knife on their person. Such a knife works better for regular everyday cutting tasks than a heavy duty tactical type folder. I think the Spyderco Enduras and Delicas with the FFG blades would be top notch EDC knives for 90+ % of the folks out there.

There are a lot of other knives that would fit in that category as well though, including the Opinels and the SAKs and a host of more traditional pocket knives.

The bottom line is that you need to select your EDC knife (knives) based on the expected use(s) and condition(s) one expects to be in.

I find I much prefer a FFG grind over a sabre or hollow grind. YMMV.

Ed
 
A majority of the tasks that my knife handles on a daily basis could be done with an edge that is much thinner...

My Izula has a thicker spine and edge geometry than my Murray Carter Neck Knife, so it doesn't slice as well, but I have more fun with my Izula because I know it's going to shrug off any "hard use" tasks I put it through. My Carter could handle it most likely just fine, but I'm just a little more worried about it than my Izula.
 
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