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SM-100 Myth debunked...

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shqxk

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SM-100 is hardenable titanium nickel alloy made by Summit Material company. The metal contain exactly 60% nickel and 40% titanium with no other element added.

There are many knife maker who used this stuff continue claim that the SM-100 is kind of the best material for making knife blade man ever found..
They even say that SM-100 is superior than any steels. This stuff is very expensive, 300$ for 15" x 1.5"x 0.15" stock. Any knife made from SM-100 usually cost over 1,000$+

This sold for 2,200$
sm100.jpg


This sold for 1,250$
0839068.jpg


But since the first SM-100 blade has been made, as yet still no any official report/review about it actual performance.

I'm always curious how nickel-titanium alloy would compete the performance of steel. since both nickel and titanium are kind of soft metal, even though the material is hardenable.

There are a maker who work with SM-100 who said that it was the reason of proper heat treat. but that wasn't make any sense since the heat treat recipe of SM-100 is very simple.

This is the recipe I got from Summit Materiel :
Heat to 1800F for 20min and fast quench in oil/plate the method not even need for any tempering as steel does.

As far as it goes, I feel that this kind of selling magic bean.

Later I found a couple videos from a guy who actually do some testing.

[video=youtube;oXgUcPNPYPk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXgUcPNPYPk[/video]
[video=youtube;Txpio6S59lY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txpio6S59lY[/video]

I don't want to ruin anyone business but I'm pretty sure that knife maker would know the capability on material he work/grinding/sanding/sharpen with.

I would appreciate any knife maker to chime in.
 
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Association with Strider and somehow too tough to test when light impact snaps pieces off?

2013-11-18-04-07-13--791563968_zps1380ed06.jpg
 
Soooo, this video is for cliff stamp huh? you know, you could do the same thing with a lot of chef's knives provided they're ground as thin, and hardened to around 61+ RC (seems to be the norm for custom and high end chef's knives). Oh yeah, WHY THE $&@! IS CUTTING INTO A 4 BY 4 A REASONABLE TEST FOR A CHEF'S KNIFE? This thread feels rather troll-ish to me. If you would really like to learn about SM-100, contact Elliot Williamson of Ferrum Forge, you'll learn everything you could want to know about SM-100. :)

Cheers,
Kirby
 
9blades said:
Soooo, this video is for cliff stamp huh? you know, you could do the same thing with a lot of chef's knives provided they're ground as thin, and hardened to around 61+ RC (seems to be the norm for custom and high end chef's knives). Oh yeah, WHY THE $&@! IS CUTTING INTO A 4 BY 4 A REASONABLE TEST FOR A CHEF'S KNIFE? This thread feels rather troll-ish to me. If you would really like to learn about SM-100, contact Elliot Williamson of Ferrum Forge, you'll learn everything you could want to know about SM-100. :)

Cheers,
Kirby
Click to expand...

No. no at all, that was absolutely false. Sound like you almost have no clue about metallurgy.

No quality chef knife which made from a good steel with good heat treat will fail the same way as the video...
Even ZDP-189 heat treated to more than 65rc won't snap off by light pressing against a pen.

The fact is SM-100 has very low young modulus from the data sheet. http://www.summitmaterials.com/sm-100/knives/ Not much higher than concrete. Young modulus directly refer to material's shear strength. In this case it isn't any surprise for SM-100 to snap off just by light lateral force.

Contract the maker for any fact would be a bad idea since anyone would speak for himself to defense for his business.
 
shqxk said:
No. no at all, that was absolutely false. Sound like you almost have no clue about metallurgy.

No quality chef knife which made from a good steel with good heat treat will fail the same way as the video...
Even ZDP-189 heat treated to more than 65rc won't snap off by light pressing against a pen.

The fact is SM-100 has very low young modulus from the data sheet. http://www.summitmaterials.com/sm-100/knives/ Not much higher than concrete. Young modulus directly refer to material's shear strength. In this case it isn't any surprise for SM-100 to snap off just by light lateral force.

Contract the maker for any fact would be a bad idea since anyone would speak for himself to defense for his business.
Click to expand...

Correct, I'm pretty ignorant when it come to metallurgy.

I honestly don't have the knowledge to maintain a sensible argument here so I'm going to back out.

Cheers,
Kirby
 
My compliments to Kirby. At last, a man who admits he doesn't know everything about everything. Rare bird these days!
 
Sonnydaze said:
My compliments to Kirby. At last, a man who admits he doesn't know everything about everything. Rare bird these days!
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My compliments to him also. He definitely has balls :thumbup: even thought he said that I trolling :mad::eek::D
 
Sonnydaze said:
My compliments to Kirby. At last, a man who admits he doesn't know everything about everything. Rare bird these days!
Click to expand...

shqxk said:
My compliments to him also. He definitely has balls :thumbup: even thought he said that I trolling :mad::eek::D
Click to expand...

FortyTwoBlades said:
:thumbup: Cheers to Kirby!

As the saying goes, wisdom mostly consists of knowing what you don't know. ;)
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Thank you, it means more than you might think.

and for the record, I said troll-ish. :thumbup: :D
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Why would a thread aimed at knifemakers be posted in General Knife Discussion?
Click to expand...

This is not about to specify discredit any maker. I just cringe every-time when somebody talking about SM-100 as the best metal for knife ever..while they actually know nothing about it. What if someone spend a couple grands for SM-100 blade, used it and resulted as the video? I know most people who spent that kind of money for SM-100 knife will likely never use it, only fondle and enjoy their fantasy.

At least this thread would be useful some people who really looking for great user knife, he wouldn't have been had bought it.
 
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Sonnydaze said:
My compliments to Kirby. At last, a man who admits he doesn't know everything about everything. Rare bird these days!
Click to expand...

:thumbup: Cheers to Kirby!

As the saying goes, wisdom mostly consists of knowing what you don't know. ;)
 
shqxk said:
No. no at all, that was absolutely false. Sound like you almost have no clue about metallurgy.

No quality chef knife which made from a good steel with good heat treat will fail the same way as the video...
Even ZDP-189 heat treated to more than 65rc won't snap off by light pressing against a pen.

The fact is SM-100 has very low young modulus from the data sheet. http://www.summitmaterials.com/sm-100/knives/ Not much higher than concrete. Young modulus directly refer to material's shear strength. In this case it isn't any surprise for SM-100 to snap off just by light lateral force.

Contract the maker for any fact would be a bad idea since anyone would speak for himself to defense for his business.
Click to expand...

That is not true. Young's modulus (Also known as the modulus of elasticity or the elastic modulus) only relates strain to stress in the elastic region of material deformation. Please do not accuse Kirby of being clueless and then turn around and demonstrate your own ignorance.
 
bpeezer said:
That is not true. Young's modulus (Also known as the modulus of elasticity or the elastic modulus) only relates strain to stress in the elastic region of material deformation. Please do not accuse Kirby of being clueless and then turn around and demonstrate your own ignorance.
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Don't start insulting other members. No need for this to be locked or thrown into the W&C pit. From a physics standpoint material deformation and shear resistance are quite similar when you are testing something that appears to have the same toughness as ceramic, hard but brittle. Softer steel will bend before it snaps, this material didn't bend at all, it just snapped.

The OP in this may not be a physicist, but for a layman he is close enough to hold conversation in the topic. Also note that I am not a physicists, so I could be wrong.
 
Sm100 in other knives has not shown behavior like that. There is some speculation that this knife was overheated somehow.
 
dkb45 said:
Don't start insulting other members. No need for this to be locked or thrown into the W&C pit. From a physics standpoint material deformation and shear resistance are quite similar when you are testing something that appears to have the same toughness as ceramic, hard but brittle. Softer steel will bend before it snaps, this material didn't bend at all, it just snapped.

The OP in this may not be a physicist, but for a layman he is close enough to hold conversation in the topic. Also note that I am not a physicists, so I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

I am in no way attempting to insult him. In fact, I agree with him that SM-100 is far from ideal as a blade material. I apologize if I sounded harsh, but misinterpretation of Young's modulus happens to be one of my pet peeves. If you search my post history, you can probably find several others where I come off as a smart ass for correcting someone's use of the term :o

I have spent the last four and a half years applying material properties to mechanical analysis, but I am FAR from being an expert on materials science. This instance was just particularly frustrating because he had just finished calling someone else clueless (someone who happens to be an extremely helpful forum member).

When it comes to scientific discussion, I realize that I have a tendency to be rather brash. Once again, I apologize for the tone in my original post.
 
Some custom makers like to use exotic materials like SM100 and Stellite 6K. I have not heard any problems with using these knives for general cutting (which is what some people use knives for). Whether these knives - or any custom knife using exotic materials - is worth the money is a matter of opinion, strong opinion.
 
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