small batch quench oil

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AWGunS

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I have a length of 1095 that I would like to practice on, and I think I may get 4 blades out of it. I want to grind them and HT them, but down the road, I would rather not get into oil quenching, and stick with stainless for the majority of my work.

I don't want to buy a specialty oil and have it sitting around the garage, only to be used for a few knives. Anything that would give me a good quench that I do not have to special order?

A-
 
I would do a quick search for makers near you and see if one of them has some spare they would sell you.
 
I don't work with 1095 and thus have never heat treated it but you are welcome to come by my place and HT them. We're only 60 minutes apart.

Alternatively, you can buy purpose driven quench oil from McMaster-Carr in Streetsboro by the gallon and go pick it up at their will-call. Order in the morning and it's waiting for you within an hour. They have fast quench and slow quench, you'll need the fast stuff.

Good luck
 
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Carl_First_Timer said:
Slow for 1095?
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With 1095 you'd want to use a fast quenchant. I don't think 1095 is a good choice to start with as it's one of the harder steels to heat treat. If you're going to McMaster to get quenching oil I'd pick up the slow quench and a bar of 5160 to work on instead :)
 
oops, you guys are right, just realized my typo, was too busy responding to Cal_First_Timer to catch it ;)
 
In my limited knifemaking experience I heat treated a 8" 5/32 x 1" 1095 blade in a 2 soft brick mini-forge with just a MAPP torch using 4 liters of canola oil and ended up with a RC of 61 . I probably just got lucky but canola oil smells nicer in the kitchen oven then McMaster-Carr but probably doesn't work as well I have no experience with the stuff. I'm not sure how you plan to temper it , I'd stick with the experienced guys advice.
 
duffy99 said:
In my limited knifemaking experience I heat treated a 8" 5/32 x 1" 1095 blade in a 2 soft brick mini-forge with just a MAPP torch using 4 liters of canola oil and ended up with a RC of 61 . I probably just got lucky but canola oil smells nicer in the kitchen oven then McMaster-Carr but probably doesn't work as well I have no experience with the stuff. I'm not sure how you plan to temper it , I'd stick with the experienced guys advice.
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The problem as I know it with 1095 is since it's a hypereutectoid steel it requires a longer soak at temp to get the carbon into solution... someone correct me if I'm wrong, but a RC of 61 doesn't tell you about the grain structure of the knife...Which is why 1095 is best done with a forge that can control the temp for accurate soak times.
I'm not poking at you Frasier, you seem to want to do the best job possible on your knives, just food for thought!
 
Also, with 1095 you have a pretty small window of time to take it from critical temperature to quench. There are other steels available to a beginner or someone with less equipment that are more forgiving.

McMaster is a great resource for someone just starting and has one in their back yard. They have a decent selection of steel and you can pick it up right there. I drive within a mile of it every day going to work so I'm there a lot.

As with anything, learning as much as you can and then experimenting in your environment is the best procedure.

Duffy: McMasters fast quench smells like melted crayons - very pleasant and a heck of a lot better than the ATF some people use. But I agree and give Canola the edge on smell.
 
fluidsteel said:
The problem as I know it with 1095 is since it's a hypereutectoid steel it requires a longer soak at temp to get the carbon into solution... someone correct me if I'm wrong, but a RC of 61 doesn't tell you about the grain structure of the knife...Which is why 1095 is best done with a forge that can control the temp for accurate soak times.
I'm not poking at you Frasier, you seem to want to do the best job possible on your knives, just food for thought!
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Your right I have no clue of the grain structure . I had the blade edge tested when I picked up some free quenching oil from a metal treatment company. I read about the longer soak time and heat treatment methods of 1095 and tried to mimic it by slowly heating the blade to non-magentic and then giving it another 5 minutes just in case then instantly quenching in oil . I then tempered it for 3 one hour cycles at 400-450f cooling to room temperature in between. Then I accidentally left the knife in the oven for 3 hours at 375f came home and gave it another 45 at 430f to be totally honest. That is what I did and by no means something I'd advise someone else to attempt. By far the best way to heat treat 1095 or any steel is in a temperature controlled environment, with proper equipment and knowledge of the steels properties . I was just stating a newbie attempt that succeeded and not trying to imply that one should do this and expect a properly hardened blade. Like I said I probably got lucky, 1080/1084 would be a much better choice for home heat treat attempts and is what I'm learning with. I ordered the 1095 before I realized the properties of the steel cause it was cheap. That doesn't mean I'm not going to try for a hamon :) with the 1095 I have left.
 
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duffy99 said:
then instantly quenching in oil
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Based on my understanding of 1095 the part I clipped above is probably the best explanation for your success.

There are a few makers who I have a lot of respect for that like to heat treat certain steels with a torch because it gives them the ability to quench exactly when they want to. Everyone else practices the art of Zen in trying to get their tongs in hand, open the door to their oven, swing a 1500+ degree blade through the air an undisclosed distance to their quench tank and still make it in above critical temperature.
 
Get some canola oil and some "special" quenching oil. Quench a few blades in canola and quench some in the "special" oil. When you are done, use the knives and try to determine which were quenched in what oil. Based solely on real world blade performance, you will not be able to distinguish one from the other.
 
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BMK said:
Get some canola oil and some "special" quenching oil. Quench a few blades in canola and quench some in the "special" oil. When you are done, use the knives and try to determine which were quenched in what oil. Based solely on blade performance, you will not be able to distinguish one from the other.
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Don't say that I got 10 liters of Houghton K Quench Oil specifically made for fast quenching steel 2 weeks ago , it was free but none the less it costs $120 for 20L and was what a metal treatment company uses so...
 
Don't feel bad. I am certain that you could distinguish them if you had a microscope and looked at a cross section of a destroyed blade.

Hang in there - you will feel better in a few minutes because someone will post and explain why it makes perfect sense to use special things in complex ways.

duffy99 said:
Don't say that I got 10 liters of Houghton K Quench Oil specifically made for fast quenching steel 2 weeks ago , it was free but none the less it costs $120 for 20L and was what a metal treatment company uses so...
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here we go.......quench it in used diesel motor oil...... JUST KIDDING even though my 10 series can punch through the sides of clothes driers? and hold and edge like mad!! maybe the extra fuel in the oil helps?
 
BMK said:
Don't feel bad. I am certain that you could distinguish them if you had a microscope and looked at a cross section of a destroyed blade.

Hang in there - you will feel better in a few minutes because someone will post and explain why it makes perfect sense to use special things in complex ways.
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OOOOOH-OOOH ... ME-ME-ME............. lol.

Take the seat belts out of your car... Replace them with standard nylon webbing, fastex clips and use single stitch cotton thread to sew them back in. I bet they still feel like seatbelts, right?

Ha! Probably not as life-threatening but you may be able to understand where I'm coming from. The quenchant should match the steel. We used to not care because we didn't know any better...... Now, we know. If you don't want to have to worry about engineered quenchants... use 1084 and any decent cooking oil. There is a means to suit anyones idea of bladesmithing. Using 1095 with a slow quenchant is just a waste of potential.... like buying a Mustang GT and putting a 4-banger in it. The car will still drive from A to B but not like a Mustang should.

Rick
 
Your seat belt analogy had me laughing - well done! "Tony" (below) maintains: "Based solely on real world blade performance, you will not be able to distinguish one from the other."
Tony can be stubborn:-)

zippy1tx.jpg

Rick Marchand said:
OOOOOH-OOOH ... ME-ME-ME............. lol.

Take the seat belts out of your car... Replace them with standard nylon webbing, fastex clips and use single stitch cotton thread to sew them back in. I bet they still feel like seatbelts, right?

Ha! Probably not as life-threatening but you may be able to understand where I'm coming from. The quenchant should match the steel. We used to not care because we didn't know any better...... Now, we know. If you don't want to have to worry about engineered quenchants... use 1084 and any decent cooking oil. There is a means to suit anyones idea of bladesmithing. Using 1095 with a slow quenchant is just a waste of potential.... like buying a Mustang GT and putting a 4-banger in it. The car will still drive from A to B but not like a Mustang should.

Rick
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I knew you'd get a kick out of that... lol.

Seriously though.... What sort of "real world blade performance" are we talking about here? My real world might be different than yours. If we want to get non-critical, we can say that a couple HRC points and well distributed alloying would go a long way when knife meets cuttingboard in the kitchen. I can tell the difference between steels geometry and HRC points by how often I am touching up the blade. If you want to get "hypothetically" critical, you could go as far to ask if 150 extra rope cuts out of 2000 would be a significant improvement. To the everyday urban knife enthusiast, probably not..... but ask the same question to a soldier in the field, an SAR tech, an EMT Paramedic or that kid who had to amputate his own arm to get free from a shifted rock.

2% performance improvement can tip the scales in your favour.... or it could never mean anything to you. Funny how the world works that way.


Rick
 
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