small poly 9mm for CCW

MORIMOTOM said:
but i dont see the performance difference to be that great between a .380 and 9mm.
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Curious statement.

The Corbon .380, probably the hottest .380 load out there does 1050 fps out of the 2.5" Ruger LCP length barrel, cranking out 220 ft lbs of energy.

In contrast, the Corbon 115 JHP goes 1350 fps from a 4" barrel, churning up 466 ft lbs of energy. Let's say it only goes 1250 fps from a Kahr PM-9 3" barrel, it's still doing 399 ft lbs.

I'd call that a very significant performance difference.

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mr2blue said:
I have the Kahr MK9 which is the same size as the PM9. I absolutely love the gun. It is obviously heavier but it stabilizes the gun. I did not like the feel of the PM9 as well YMMV
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i'm the exact opposite, i have a K9, P9 and PM9, bought the K9 when kahr 1st came out, liked the pistol but for me it was just too darned heavy, for me the P9 and PM9 are as close to a perfect edc as i have found, the PM9 is hardly bigger/heavier than a walther PPK, pretty hard to beat imho.

agree ya do have to grind the slide release down a bit but 5 mins on a norton stone takes care of that problem.

a .380 is on the very edge of being big enough for any serious use imho, while the 9MM with good ammo (ie ranger 147 or 127 +P+) will do what ya need it to do, to me a .32 and .380 are so close to one another i i would rather have a little smaller pistol in .32(ie keltec P32) vs a slightly larger one in .380 (KT P3AT) and the difference isnt much, but like i said imho the performance difference between those 2 is pretty small, while the 9MM is a service calibre used by the US military and police depts all over the place and has a lot more oomph than either the 32 or 380.

i also agree the .40 P- series kahrs are a little jumpy and more difficult to shoot well vs the 9MM but i dont have any probs with the P9 or the PM9, a bud has a P40 covert and it is a handfull with hot ammo, in my PM9 i use std pressure ranger 147gr and they arent bad at all, in the larger one i use ranger 127gr +P+ and in that one its not bad, but the +P+ in the PM would be (is)a little different story lol, but even with the +P+ imho the PM9 isnt nearly as hard to shoot well as a S&W "J" frame with +P or +P+ stuff, not to even mention the scandium "J"'s or the scandium .357's, now those are a bear, and i shoot a fair amount of magnums, imho the scandium "J" .357 with 125gr magnum ammo is as unpleasant to shoot as anything i have ever tried to shoot, and i have tried a few lol (ie 44 mag, 454 casull, 500 S&W to name 3).
 
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David E said:
Curious statement.

The Corbon .380, probably the hottest .380 load out there does 1050 fps out of the 2.5" Ruger LCP length barrel, cranking out 220 ft lbs of energy.

In contrast, the Corbon 115 JHP goes 1350 fps from a 4" barrel, churning up 466 ft lbs of energy. Let's say it only goes 1250 fps from a Kahr PM-9 3" barrel, it's still doing 399 ft lbs.

I'd call that a very significant performance difference.

.
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i wouldnt, but i dont want to argue with you.

statistically, service calibers all tend to perform relatively similarly in shootings. 9mm, .40, and .45 all have a wide variety of ballistic measurements relative to each other, but ultimately i have never been convinced the larger, hotter bullet transfers that energy significantly to the intended target to make one necessarily superior.

each bullet is still less than 1/2" wide, and compared to the human body, all are tiny, and all are ballistically close enough to each other to make comparisons somewhat pointless. it always seems to come down to splitting hairs. one can compare a "hot" round, with a less impressive round, and make conclusions based on that, but again this means little to me.

the .380 is certainly on the low end, ballistically speaking. but it is large enough not to be a "mouse gun". since we are talking about concealment weapons, the .380 is worth mentioning.

(i would not make this argument were we discussing .357, .45lc, .44, etc. and there is a reason police dept's do not use handgun calibers larger than .45 acp)
 
I have a Kahr PM9. It's the only gun I know of that is DLC-coated, and that alone is reason enough for a knife person to get one.
 
MORIMOTOM said:
one can compare a "hot" round, with a less impressive round, and make conclusions based on that,
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Thats's why I compared two hot rounds from the same maker. It was as close to "apples to apples" as I could get for the two calibers.

the .380 is certainly on the low end, ballistically speaking. but it is large enough not to be a "mouse gun". since we are talking about concealment weapons, the .380 is worth mentioning.
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Absolutely ! I believe I was the first one in this thread that said the list of "acceptable handguns" would need to be expanded so the woman in question (any woman saying she'd like to carry a gun) could pick one she'd actually carry. This is based on my long held (and oft-stated) view that: "Any gun with you beats any gun not."

That said, I see no reason for anyone to ever go below a .32 Kel-Tec. For example, even my weak-wristed, gun shy Mother-in-Law can shoot it. In contrast, a North American mini-revolver would require far too much manipulation to allow it into the "acceptable gun" category.

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piss poor lol.

with the small .32's ya can get nowadays i see about -0- reason to carry a .25, lotsa cons an no real pro's, still like my old baby browning though, but i havent carried the thing in yrs.

as far as 380's go i suppose they have a place, i dont understand why some folks carry large .380's though, a bud packs a browning .380 which is bigger and thicker than my PM9, makes no sense to me, i could understand a P3AT or something but a double stack .380 is imho too big for the calibre even if it does hold 13 (or 12, ) rounds.
 
if you do decide to grab a .380ACP I heavily recommend Buffalo Bore. It is fairly expensive but is one of the absolute best performing ammos available. One of his ammo choices for .380 is a 90grain round made by speer doing 1100 FPS from a kel tec p-3at which is the same barrel length as the LCP. giving it like 240 ft lbs of energy and its a completely bonded hollow point.

Linkie
http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#380
 
The deal of the year is on the SIG P225 / P6 for $279.95. While these are used German police sidearms, everything I've heard about them indicates that they've been carried a lot but shot a little. If you're not familiar with this model it's an 8 + 1 single stack 9mm. Very slim profile. I carried mine yesterday instead of my S&W 342PD and had forgotten how nice a slim sidearm is. No, it's not poly. It's SIG quality for less money than you would spend on a new poly 9.

PM me if your google-fu is lacking in finding this great deal on a centerfire 9mm pistol.
 
Knife_Geek said:
if you do decide to grab a .380ACP I heavily recommend Buffalo Bore. It is fairly expensive but is one of the absolute best performing ammos available. One of his ammo choices for .380 is a 90grain round made by speer doing 1100 FPS from a kel tec p-3at which is the same barrel length as the LCP. giving it like 240 ft lbs of energy and its a completely bonded hollow point.

Linkie
http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#380
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That's my beach gun and or backup gun and ammo combo.
 
Gov't Mule said:
The deal of the year is on the SIG P225 / P6 for $279.95. While these are used German police sidearms...
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I got one in the shop now. Very hard DA trigger pull, which is no small thing to overcome. A spring kit would help, but it needs more.

Also, as a curious side note, there is a slot cut into the hammer spur, going into the hole. "Hmmm, why is that there," you might ask yourself.

I was told the German Police affix a band to the hammer, wrapping around the frame. When they fire their gun, the band breaks. This way, investigators know who fired their gun.

.
 
I bought one of these and the one I got didn't even have the black rubbed off the slide rails. It shot well but I sold it in less than a month. I forgot how right-handed they are. SIG's are totally lefty unfriendly. I wound up with a Kahr CW-45:thumbup:
 
If you want/need lefty friendly, then take a hard look at the M&P and to a lesser extent, the XD and the SF Glocks.

.
 
I really like the MP9. I had a karr and just didn't like the ergos.

Im planning on buying a fullsize mp tomorrow. wife and I went out to the range and shot one for 200rds and really liked it.

Brett
 
I've fired a couple of mags from a Kahr PM40. Though it was pretty jumpy, it was still easy to maintain control and hit what I was aiming at. I'm actually looking at getting one of the polymer Kahrs to replace my P99 for CCW duty.

I've yet to fire a S&W M&P9C, but they do have a nice feel to them.
 
Gov't Mule said:
The deal of the year is on the SIG P225 / P6 for $279.95. While these are used German police sidearms, everything I've heard about them indicates that they've been carried a lot but shot a little. If you're not familiar with this model it's an 8 + 1 single stack 9mm. Very slim profile. I carried mine yesterday instead of my S&W 342PD and had forgotten how nice a slim sidearm is. No, it's not poly. It's SIG quality for less money than you would spend on a new poly 9.

PM me if your google-fu is lacking in finding this great deal on a centerfire 9mm pistol.
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P225's are good pistols, i have one, but they are a lot bigger and heavier than something like a kahr P9 or PM9, and a lot harder to live with as an edc pistol, a pocket gun its not lol. also mine is not a surplus i bought it new in '90 or so not long before they quit importing them, its got a pretty good trigger for a SA/DA like it is, i just dont really care for that kinda trigger any more, prefer the kahr or the glock style, myself, YMMV though, its also one of the most accurate 9MM's i have,

and i can remember when the P225 was one of the better edc's, back in the late '80's, times change i suppose.

but, again, if it being a little larger/heavier than some dont bother ya ya could do wayyy worse than a '225.
 
The M+P is a really nice pistol.

Even smaller is the Kel-Tec P-11 or PF-9. Trigger pull is kinda wierd, but I like my P-11 quite a bit.
 
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