Small Sebenza 21 Lockup too far??

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Thanks, Haze. The difference between carbides and oxides isn't well-understood by me, but it's good to know there is one. Apologies for the misinformation.

Going to have to pick up one of those WT knives myself one of these days...
 
missin_hobo said:
Thanks, Haze. The difference between carbides and oxides isn't well-understood by me, but it's good to know there is one. Apologies for the misinformation.

Going to have to pick up one of those WT knives myself one of these days...
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No worries :thumbup:

Those WT blades are interesting to say the least. :cool:
 
I wonder now...would it be possible, on one's own, to apply the same oxide layer to a titanium lockbar that wasn't given one in the factory, or would that disrupt the heat treat of the lockbar as well? I'm fairly certain there are many ti-lock knives that don't get this same attention to detail.

According to the CRK DVD, the oxide layer is the last thing done before bead-blasting, and the process seems simple enough, with a bit of research. Hard to say if it affects the heat-treating or not, I guess...
 
missin_hobo said:
I wonder now...would it be possible, on one's own, to apply the same oxide layer to a titanium lockbar that wasn't given one in the factory, or would that disrupt the heat treat of the lockbar as well? I'm fairly certain there are many ti-lock knives that don't get this same attention to detail.

According to the CRK DVD, the oxide layer is the last thing done before bead-blasting, and the process seems simple enough, with a bit of research. Hard to say if it affects the heat-treating or not, I guess...
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You can carbidize the lockface. Mayo and Hinderer do this. It works great. I guess that would qualify as attention to detail....
 
I wish everyone did that to the lockbar. I love how there is no break in period on the Sebenza. My thumb got a real workout using my Emerson Comrade and a Strider SnG. They felt great after a couple weeks, but the initial period where the lock stuck was a real pain.
 
mongomondo said:
I wish everyone did that to the lockbar. I love how there is no break in period on the Sebenza. My thumb got a real workout using my Emerson Comrade and a Strider SnG. They felt great after a couple weeks, but the initial period where the lock stuck was a real pain.
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Yes, agree. I also think that this is responsible for some of the panic about CRK lockup? People like Cotherion experience wear issues with other makers' framelocks and when they see the deeper engagement on a CRK lockbar they assume the knife is going to wear out of safe engagement rapidly, which is not true for CRK knives. Lots of confusion here...understandable but unfortunate...
 
RobME said:
Absolutely right. :thumbup:


Ummm, you're not entirely correct, and you've obviously never done it.
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Hell I'm just going off of what Heather told me when I ordered my Sebbie. Each lock is fit to the blade. Then I'm assuming the 'natural' closing position on the lock is where it was set to fit. If you change that, you're potentially making it worse.
bigmark408 said:
If you paid 500 plus for a small , i think you may have over paid by atleast a buck and a half my friend :) :thumbup:

Un like some people, i speak from experiance...your comment is out of ignorance. :D
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bhyde said:
Let me know when you need another small sebenza 21! I might have a few to sell at that price!! :D
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Actually I never said I have a small 21 :p It's a large 21, dual stud, snake wood handles. Awww, that wasn't so ignorant now was it.
 
Mr. Clean said:
Hell I'm just going off of what Heather told me when I ordered my Sebbie. Each lock is fit to the blade. Then I'm assuming the 'natural' closing position on the lock is where it was set to fit. If you change that, you're potentially making it worse.



Actually I never said I have a small 21 :p It's a large 21, dual stud, snake wood handles. Awww, that wasn't so ignorant now was it.
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That's what I was thinking as well. I mean, unless changing the lock by pulling it out is different than how I think it's done, wouldn't you potentially loosen the lockup? By just lightly holding the lockbar out a bit(like when you unlock the knife), you creat "wiggle room", from what I see. Anyways, if I wasn't pleased with my Seb from the purchase, I think I would contact the seller first. That's what I did in the past with True North Knives when my Sm Seb came in less than ideal condition.
 
Mr. Clean said:
Hell I'm just going off of what Heather told me when I ordered my Sebbie. Each lock is fit to the blade. Then I'm assuming the 'natural' closing position on the lock is where it was set to fit. If you change that, you're potentially making it worse.



Actually I never said I have a small 21 :p It's a large 21, dual stud, snake wood handles. Awww, that wasn't so ignorant now was it.
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My bad for assuming that you were speaking about the topic knife.

Ignorant was in regards to your lock comment and i stand by it.

Have you ever adjusted a lock on a CRK ? :)
 
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It aint rocket surgery... pulling the lock bar out certainly will adversely effect lockup. Its as simple as "X-Y" coordinates. The lockbar moves linear and contacts the tang because it is pitched. Move the lockbar, and move it away from the pitched surface. period.

It is possible to bend it to create less tension where it is sprung to seat. If you actually MOVE it from the seat, it is unseated. I've owned a dozen Sebs... I have NEVER had the lock move excessively which is unbelievable considering the amount of knifesurbation a few of them have undergone.

If you don't believe me or don't understand, AND YOU HAVE A SEBENZA, do yourself a favor:

open the knife. disengage the lock. hold the lock bar out to where it BARELY (corner to corner) hovers over the tang... wiggle the blade up and down. Viola! Realize this is an extreme, but undeniable proof that you have created space in moving the lockbar out... whether YOU can perceive LESS movement or not, I can't say. But it is there.

OP: Do NOT bend the lock bar out.
 
archieblue said:
It aint rocket surgery... pulling the lock bar out certainly will adversely effect lockup. Its as simple as "X-Y" coordinates. The lockbar moves linear and contacts the tang because it is pitched. Move the lockbar, and move it away from the pitched surface. period.

It is possible to bend it to create less tension where it is sprung to seat. If you actually MOVE it from the seat, it is unseated. I've owned a dozen Sebs... I have NEVER had the lock move excessively which is unbelievable considering the amount of knifesurbation a few of them have undergone.

If you don't believe me or don't understand, AND YOU HAVE A SEBENZA, do yourself a favor:

open the knife. disengage the lock. hold the lock bar out to where it BARELY (corner to corner) hovers over the tang... wiggle the blade up and down. Viola! Realize this is an extreme, but undeniable proof that you have created space in moving the lockbar out... whether YOU can perceive LESS movement or not, I can't say. But it is there.

OP: Do NOT bend the lock bar out.
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You are WRONG !! If you own one , if it's at 80% back it off to 50% and check. the seb lock face is NOT ground at a radical angle as lets say a Strider.
 
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archieblue said:
It aint rocket surgery... pulling the lock bar out certainly will adversely effect lockup. Its as simple as "X-Y" coordinates. The lockbar moves linear and contacts the tang because it is pitched. Move the lockbar, and move it away from the pitched surface. period.

It is possible to bend it to create less tension where it is sprung to seat. If you actually MOVE it from the seat, it is unseated. I've owned a dozen Sebs... I have NEVER had the lock move excessively which is unbelievable considering the amount of knifesurbation a few of them have undergone.

If you don't believe me or don't understand, AND YOU HAVE A SEBENZA, do yourself a favor:

open the knife. disengage the lock. hold the lock bar out to where it BARELY (corner to corner) hovers over the tang... wiggle the blade up and down. Viola! Realize this is an extreme, but undeniable proof that you have created space in moving the lockbar out... whether YOU can perceive LESS movement or not, I can't say. But it is there.

OP: Do NOT bend the lock bar out.
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bigmark408 said:
You are WRONG !! If you own one , if it's at 80% back it off to 50% and check. the seb lock face is NOT ground at a radical angle as lets say a Strider.
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Well, according to this, posted somewhere else, the 'bend the lock bar out' technique is suggested.....For a Strider.....By Mick Strider himself! So I take it even a lock bar face ground to a "radical angle" can safely have the 'bend the lock bar out' technique used?:confused:

Personally, I'd send the Sebenza to CRK long before doing any lock bar bending, but that's just me..............and apparently a few other members as well.;)
 
Why are people arguing about bending the lockbar out when it is totally normal as it is? This is how many sebenzas are shipped. The sebenza isnt a normal framelock. Lets not try to make it look like one. K thx :)
 
From the FAQ thread at the begining of this forum:

"We know that a lot of owners of Sebenzas like to adjust the lock and the pivot etc. but we DO discourage this. When we ship the knives, they work the way they are intended and modifications usually end up with something not working right!"
- Anne Reeve, 11/03/98
 
Truth be told, though I like to tinker with my folders, I am particularly hesitant to tinker with framelock's or linerlock's lock tension. If it involves reducing tension then I'm even more hesitant (because of a little but significant incident in my past) but I'm more acceptable with increasing tension.

But OldDude1's post will ensure I leave it to CRK to solve this if ever I have something similar occurring.
 
3Guardsmen said:
Well, according to this, posted somewhere else, the 'bend the lock bar out' technique is suggested.....For a Strider.....By Mick Strider himself! So I take it even a lock bar face ground to a "radical angle" can safely have the 'bend the lock bar out' technique used?:confused:

Personally, I'd send the Sebenza to CRK long before doing any lock bar bending, but that's just me..............and apparently a few other members as well.;)
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Soooo, you just said yourself, the word "angle." The surfaces are absolutely not linear to each other. When Mick said that he was discussing the lock sticking. Like I said that is cool if it is bent in the factory to an extreme which causes not only contact of the surfaces, but to the point of being wedged, you can relieve tension by, of course SLIGHTLY bending the lockbar. He certainly ain't talking about making the lockup prettier. ANY knifemaker will tell you that actually removing the lock from its seat by moving it away from the angled surface it is contacting, will cause a gap... after all, that is how the lock works!

So I agree if you are talking about alleviating a marring/sticking lock, but to move it just because you want it to look like it is contacting less of the tang, I completely disagree...at least for the sake of people who might overdo the process.
 
archieblue said:
Soooo, you just said yourself, the word "angle." The surfaces are absolutely not linear to each other. When Mick said that he was discussing the lock sticking. Like I said that is cool if it is bent in the factory to an extreme which causes not only contact of the surfaces, but to the point of being wedged, you can relieve tension by, of course SLIGHTLY bending the lockbar. He certainly ain't talking about making the lockup prettier. ANY knifemaker will tell you that actually removing the lock from its seat by moving it away from the angled surface it is contacting, will cause a gap... after all, that is how the lock works!

So I agree if you are talking about alleviating a marring/sticking lock, but to move it just because you want it to look like it is contacting less of the tang, I completely disagree...at least for the sake of people who might overdo the process.
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Let's stick with the CRK...As mentioned earlier the strider is a different animal.

The Sebenza's angle on the blade tang is minute...take a blade out and square it up and you will see.

You must take into account stacking...pivot pin to I.D. of bushing...O.D. of bushing to I.D. of blade hole....these have clearances which deflect ....thats one reason why blades are at times off center,,,BTW of which can also be caused by lock bar tension...you spoke of the wedge effect...the lock bar tension can cause deflection in the blade...when you take some tension out of the lock bar the parts will deflect less and the lock up can still be solid.

Personally i like a deep lock up...my point in this thread is that if it really bothers someone...it's a simple fix.

Folks worry needlessly about this...its not an issue unless the lock sticks. IMO.

I have made these adjustments many times for many years...I'm speaking from hands on experience. :)
 
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