Smoke request / need to share

S

SingleGrind

Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
894
This may be a bit unconventional, and I'm definitely posting this hesitantly, but I'm requesting some smoke for my snakes.

I've been struggling with an outbreak of snake mites for the past few months, and it's been causing nothing but stress for both me and my reptiles. For those who don't know, which I'm guessing is most of you, snake mites are similar to fleas, ticks and all those fun little buggers. They only feed on reptile blood, and can only reproduce after feeding. These things are very difficult to get rid of, and are basically every reptile keepers nightmare.

My snakes all live in bioactive vivariums, with live plants and microorganisms living in the soil. It's basically a mini-ecosystem. Because I went to great lengths to create and maintain these environments, I obviously looked for the natural solution first. After hearing about and researching predatory mites, I finally felt comfortable and confident and found a source. The mites are not cheap, have to be shipped via 2-day, and reapplied every other week. Needless to say, I spent a lot of money on that option.

There were times I was convinced it wasn't working, times I watched my snakes writhing in frustration, trying to rid themselves of the parasites, and many times where I almost said screw it and just used chemicals. Watching my animals suffer literally brought me to tears on a couple occasions.

After a couple months of that, I didn't see any mites for a few weeks. Problem solved! Or so I thought. Every day after work I was spending almost an hour searching for mites, and then one day, I saw a mite crawling on my Rainbow Boa, the only snake that I had not seen any mites on during the whole treatment.

That was about a week ago, and the point when I decided that option was not working.

Today, I'm treating them with a chemical mite-spray, and I'm wicked nervous. They're the closest thing I have to children, and though most people have no problems with these chemicals, I've also heard some horror stories. Most of the incidents are with very young snakes, which mine aren't, but that doesn't help quell my concern too much.

Right now, I'm sitting in the living room with all 3 snakes in Rubs on the couch. I sprayed the tanks and have to wait for the chemicals to dry and the air to clear. Ya, it's not even safe for humans, makes me super comfortable.. And the best part is, I need to retreat the tanks in 2 weeks, and again 2 weeks after that.

While the snakes are my obvious main concern, I also have a culture of springtails and a colony of Dubia roaches, plus all that bioactivity in the soil. I moved the roaches and springtails to my parents house, but I'm still essentially committing genocide on all the beneficial life in those tanks. That itself is gonna be a project, just to restart all those life cycles from scratch in a potentially "polluted" soil. One of the tanks was going on 2 years bioactive, and it really sucks to have to fudge it up like this. I only ever had to remove excrement, trim plants, and replace the soil that was lost over time.

So I've got my work cut out for me, to say the least. Just the process of treatment today is taking about 2 hours, granted most of it is playing the waiting game.

I was really unsure if I should post this or not, but it does help to get it out and let you all know what's going on in my life. After all, you guys are family in my book.

-Cam
 
Hang in there Cam!

I dealt with mites a few times when I had my snakes. The only thing that ever worked for me was the heavy duty chemical stuff. I forget the name of the reptile-specific one on the market, but it has the same active ingredient as off-the-shelf bed bug spray which is about 1/10th of the cost.

It's really a shame about the bioactive vivariums, I suspect the mite spray will mess with the ecosystems. I never had any issues with my snakes themselves getting treated. I had mostly pythons along with a kingsnake and a ATB, as many as 7 snakes at the same time at one point. They have all passed since then sadly. I would like to get back into them but don't have the time right now. With a 9 month old human at home the reptiles get put on the back burner.

My favorite snake ever was a Macklot's python. They have a terrible reputation for being nippy but she was a sweetheart (except at feeding time). She was the most intelligent snake I've ever been acquainted with. She didn't like to hide like my other pythons. She was always out and about cruising around her cage, and when she saw me outside the cage would come right over and stare at me, then I'd open up the cage and she'd crawl right out onto my arm/shoulders.

Hang in there! The chemical spray should clear your mite problem up no problem. Good luck to you with re-establishing the bioactive stuff.
 
Smoke up from my end of the hemisphere, I truly got no use for snakes myself but long as you keep em on your end of the hemisphere I'll rout for a happy and healthy outcome for you and them.

Knowing what I know about snakes which is less than nothing couldn't a person just get rid of the dirt or whatever they slither around on and put in new stuff. Treat the snakes themselves.

I'd try to invent a mite collar for snakes in several colors but a snake ain't got no neck to hang it on.

Seriously hope they get better soon.
 
SingleGrind said:
I moved the roaches and springtails to my parents house, but I'm still essentially committing genocide on all the beneficial life in those tanks. That itself is gonna be a project, just to restart all those life cycles from scratch in a potentially "polluted" soil. One of the tanks was going on 2 years bioactive, and it really sucks to have to fudge it up like this. I only ever had to remove excrement, trim plants, and replace the soil that was lost over time.

So I've got my work cut out for me, to say the least. Just the process of treatment today is taking about 2 hours, granted most of it is playing the waiting game.

I was really unsure if I should post this or not, but it does help to get it out and let you all know what's going on in my life. After all, you guys are family in my book.

-Cam
Click to expand...
On the spring tails, they are some seriously tough bugs. Kind of an ancient lifeform I'm guessing. Very basic and not as susceptible to chemicals as more complicated creatures.
I had to try quite a few over the counter things to finally hurt them a bit. Even then they only seem suppressed for a short time. A complete lack of moisture seemed to be their biggest enemy. One Sacramento summer and they were gone.
Of course that doesn't mean that mite specific treatments wouldn't harm them at all.
 
As you mention the ecosystems are probably going to have to be completely restarted which sucks since they had been established for so long. Anyways, smoke up for relief for your snakes and I hope that none of them have any problems with the chemicals.
 
Thanks guys. I really appreciate it.

I'm seeing almost no forms of life in the soil now. Springtails are usually bouncing around the leaf litter, and isopods crawling around, plus the ever-present fungus gnats. Nothing is flying, and the only isopods moving look like they won't last another couple hours. But the snakes are back in their tanks and all seems alright with them.

Philll, thanks man. I'm using Provent-A-Mite, which will most definitely wreak havoc with the vivs in the short run. I'm just hoping the chemicals diffuse enough to restart the microsystems in a month or 2. Also, I like Macklot's a lot. My most recent is a Carpet Python and I think the Macklot's have a lot in common with Carpets and Diamonds. My Carpet was in it's hide for the first week or so, but hasn't gone back in since. It likes to hang out in plain view and is super inquisitive. When I took it out at the store it was crawling all up on my head and curious as could be. I couldn't put it back. I do love ATBs though, what color was yours? I have a soft spot for the snakes with mean reputations. They're usually just as sweet as any other snake. Right now I have the Carpet Python, a Brazilian Rainbow Boa, and a Corn snake. I think a Hognose is next, or Vietnamese Blue Beauty. Maybe wait til your little human is a little bigger, then get something like a Rosy Boa which would be child-friendly

Bawanna, removing all bedding, plus treating the snake in quarantine, plus treating the tank, then replacing all bedding would be totally surefire. The problem is that the mites can/do lay eggs on the snake, and the spray doesnt kill eggs, from what I've read. This means that reintroducing a treated snake to an untreated environment could lead to more mites (eggs hatch, repopulate substrate). I could also have quarantined the snakes for 2 month and only treated them, not the tanks. In this scenario, all the living mites in the tank die, since they can't find food (snakes). Then the eggs hatch, and they die, because they also can't find food. Problem is the mite lifecycle is 2-3 weeks, and you gotta account for straggler mites laying eggs. All in all, it seemed the best option to keep them in their nice homes, and just hope and pray that maybe some of the soil life will survive the chemical assault.

Jens, you're definitely right that springtails are tough, you can't even drown them cuz they float! They're also pretty easy to culture. I keep my "spares" in a gallon jug with some charcoal and water in the bottom. Sprinkle a little rice in there every few weeks/month, and they're good to go. I'm not too concerned about them, since I moved my culture to my parents house. I should have enough of those for all the tanks.

I am gonna guess the PAM will kill the springtails, because it was killing the isopods, and they aren't even bugs, they're crustaceans. Combine that with the fact it told ME not to breath the vapors, and I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's probably not good for anything living.

Shavru, I do know of plenty of people who've kept vivariums going for well over 10 years, so I guess in the grand scheme of things, restarting after 2 isn't so bad. Plus, if it's for the health of the snakes, I'll do what I have to do. Anything beats where I was at.

Oh and Bawanna, what was that about snakes having no neck? I don't think my Carpet could slide a collar past this noggin!



Thanks again everyone, you're the best extended family a guy could ask for
 
I like that carpet python. Is it a jungle, or irian jaya, or a mix? I had one too, a male irian jaya. He got up to about 6.5 feet. He wasn't super friendly but did tolerate handling.

My ATB was a plain brown one, but it was the biggest one I've ever seen. He was probably over 6 feet but skinny, with a head the size of a dorito. He was NOT friendly in the least bit. Meanest snake you ever met.

Here is an old picture of my carpet.
Steve2.jpg~original
 
I'm out, just the picture skeers the living daylights out of me. Somebody start up about raising bee's and that'll be the end of me.

I'm pretty brave cept for snakes, bee's and dentist. And Voo Doo in case the witch doctor Bookie is logged in. Mans just gotta know his limitations.
 
Some smoke for your little guys! The proproducts stuff you are using works great it's best to consider your vivaro a total loss and complete clear it out. Letting your little guys live on paper towels for a while will allow you to spot stray mites.

Here's mine in her Beeger Box cage. It was custom made for her 6X4x3 with a radiant heat panel.

This is my other hobby and we spent just spent 4 thousand on a complete custom rack to go into our basement which we are getting finished to be our reptile room.

For snakes I have a white sided rat, King Rat Snake and a cali king on top of my Bella.

But the provent a mite is super effective.



Proproducts and Avitech make the radiant heat panels that I use for our cages they're the best in the business so rest assured that their mite killer will work.
 
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Phillll, that's an awful pretty snake. He looks so at ease. Mine is a Carpet X, but I'm guessing it's mostly Coastal with perhaps some IJ or Jungle. There's no browns or yellows like you'd often see with IJ or Jungles. 6' is definitely large for an ATB, and that temperament sounds on par with their reputation. I've held a few, but none that big/with teeth that big. In my experience, they have a super-fast feeding response because they live in the trees, and that accounts for a lot of their "aggression." I've heard of puppy-dog friendly ATBs, ETBs, and GTPs.

Cchu518, that's a nice looking snake. Looks like Coastal or Jungle or cross? I'm not gonna gut the vivs just yet. I'll do 3 treatments, wait a month or so, then start bioactivating everything again. I'll replace a lot of the leaf litter and debris, and add more soil mix, but I think all the dead organic matter in the soil may help kick-start the process. Assuming the chemicals dissipate of course.

Also, I'm pretty confident that I could be successful with predatory mites in the future. It was a learning process for sure. What I learned was that you need to hit them hard at the beginning, then reapply quite a few times to keep weeding out the stragglers. The main benefits of the predatory mites, aside from lack of chemicals, is that they eat both eggs and all stages of mite, and that they will turn on each other once the bad mites are gone.
 
Smoke up...

I'm curious about how you got the mites. Do you have a suspicion about how they got introduced? If the cure is that much of a pain, I reckon prevention would be a priority. I kept a corn snake and a tarahumara king snake for about three years until I had to move. Didn't ever get more snakes, though I wanted to. I hadn't heard of those mites before...
 
I was sort of wondering the same thing Khukoo was. Any ideas how the mites got into your environment? Was one of the snakes a recent addition or did one of them go "walk-about" and bring home the buggers? I would guess that with the bioactive vivariums you have you are probably pretty careful to keep the balance going, so just have to wonder what happened.
 
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