Smoothness

[Krissig12]

Hey so I hate to start yet ANOTHER thread, but I figured my old ones are totally different topics so it wouldn't make sense to post this in them.

I was wondering how I could smooth out the action of the small seb just a little bit more. I did the thing where you take it down, publish the washers, clean everything out, relube and put it all back together. And while that worked great for the PIVOT smoothness (the blade falls freely once the lock bar is moved out of the way, even when it's tighted all the way down with no play) there is still some issues coming from the detents friction on the tang. As you open the knife slowly in an arch using the thumb stud, you can definately feel the drag and catchy points along the way. As your opening you feel snag snag snag snag snag....open! I have to do it a faster to not feel the snagging.

It's a little annoying, so I was wondering if there was any way to fix it? Could I polish the contact between the detent and tang? I'm already using lube in that area, so I don't really think any more will help..

Thanks in advance

 

[unit]

Simply put, use the knife. It will smooth out over time.

Perhaps putting some lube on the detent track...but I would rather suffer the friction to speed the mating/polishing that will occur naturally with use.

Short of that, there may be some methods for polishing the detent track, but I would imagine it's not a trivial task. Opening and closing the knife a few hundred times would be much easier.

 

[nyefmaker]

Use it and enjoy it, it will smooth out over time as UNIT said. CRK folders have always had that hydraulic feel, that's just how tight the tolerances are. They are not a flipper, so something that smooth should not be expected. You can lube the detent also as stated above. If you have that gritty feeling, many times that alone will be the ticket.

 

[Zeta33]

Give it 3 weeks and it'll be very very smooth. Especially since you polished the washers.

 

[brownshoe]

There is nothing to fix. If you don't like it there are a host of blades that will not "annoy" you. Sell your sebenza and get a flipper if you want slick quick action, you won't be able to feel anything because it flys open

 

[kidcongo]

My opinion (just my personal opinion) is that the legendary smoothness of a CRK has nothing at all to do with the bushing, or the washers, or the polishing of washers, or the grease, or the tolerances. It has to do with CRK's use of a ceramic detent ball on the 21 / classic / regular, and the ceramic lock-detent ball on the Umnumzaan and 25.

You knife will feel smooth once the detent ball rubs a little track in the stone-wash and not before.

The interface between ceramic ball and steel does not create the galling and sticking effect that steel on steel has. Anyone who owns a Spyderco Lock-back (say a Sage 4 etc) knows that no matter how much oil or grease or polishing you do of the blade tang, the knife will never be smooth, because steel grips steel on a molecular level (that's why freight trains can run uphill on steel tracks).

CRK pioneered the use of the ceramic detent ball, which is responsible (in my opinion) for the legendary silky sweep of opening the knife. Everyone else was mainly using steel detent balls and still are. However, the ceramic ball takes a little bit to wear it's way through the rough surface of the stone-wash to get to that legendary smoothness you want. The ceramic ball was CRK's secret ingredient and they don't wildly publicize it's advantages to their competitors as part of the marketing of Chris Reeve Knives is that amazing smoothness you only get from a Sebenza 21 etc.


Anyways......that's just my opinion, based on hours of my own investigation, so don't flame me if you disagree. Just seems to be the case with the CRK knives I happen to own

 

[Krissig12]

There is nothing to fix. If you don't like it there are a host of blades that will not "annoy" you. Sell your sebenza and get a flipper if you want slick quick action, you won't be able to feel anything because it flys open

Wow bro, you mad?

Relax! I'm fully aware that the seb isn't a flipper and shouldn't behave like one..... I think we have two very different views of the word "smoothness". I understand the concept of the "hydraulic" feel when opening the knife. What I'm saying is that it's not doing THAT properly. By smoothness, I mean how SMOOTHLY it glides along as you open it slowly. Ie, no stuttering or grittyness. At around day 4 the knife was broken in quite well, and did not have this issue. But now it does. This leads me to think that it's related to something I might have done.

I've had it a couple weeks at this point and I carry it exclusively. As a result, I've opened it many hundreds of times

Polishing the washers made the PIVOT crazy smooth. If you move the lock bar completely out of the way and let the blade move freely without any pressure from the lock bar, you'll see that it's rediculous how silky the pivot is. THAT is what makes me think it's something to do with the detent or the part of the tang along which it rides.

The only thing I can think of is that the lube might be keeping the detent from properly wearing in against the tang. So maybe I should remove some and try it like that for a few days

 

[Krissig12]

And kidcongo, thank you very much for the great info. I had actually forgotten that the 21s had the ceramic detent.

 

[Krissig12]

PROBLEM SOLVED!

All it took was wiping the lube and gunk off of the detent track. Now it's got that hydraulic feel back:thumbup:

 

[Zeta33]

Wow bro, you mad?

Relax! I'm fully aware that the seb isn't a flipper and shouldn't behave like one..... I think we have two very different views of the word "smoothness". I understand the concept of the "hydraulic" feel when opening the knife. What I'm saying is that it's not doing THAT properly. By smoothness, I mean how SMOOTHLY it glides along as you open it slowly. Ie, no stuttering or grittyness. At around day 4 the knife was broken in quite well, and did not have this issue. But now it does. This leads me to think that it's related to something I might have done.

I've had it a couple weeks at this point and I carry it exclusively. As a result, I've opened it many hundreds of times

Polishing the washers made the PIVOT crazy smooth. If you move the lock bar completely out of the way and let the blade move freely without any pressure from the lock bar, you'll see that it's rediculous how silky the pivot is. THAT is what makes me think it's something to do with the detent or the part of the tang along which it rides.

The only thing I can think of is that the lube might be keeping the detent from properly wearing in against the tang. So maybe I should remove some and try it like that for a few days

Stop worrying, you're obsessing. Sebenzas have a strong detent, thats why it's snaggy. It will get easier but always stay relatively strong. Don't mind brownshoe btw, he's always got a snarky remark loaded up and ready to go. Most of the sub is very polite and friendly, regardless of their personal views and opinions.

 

[Krissig12]

Stop worrying, you're obsessing. Sebenzas have a strong detent, thats why it's snaggy. It will get easier but always stay relatively strong. Don't mind brownshoe btw, he's always got a snarky remark loaded up and ready to go. Most of the sub is very polite and friendly, regardless of their personal views and opinions.

I wasn't referring to when the detent has to be overcome..... I was talking about its effect on the blade tangs as it rides along while you open the knife slowly. It's in constant contact with the blade, so I figured that it was the only area that could have had something to do with the stuttering while opening the knife.

But anyway, it's perfect now. Thanks guys

 

[marthinus]

I could never understand why anyone want to polish the washers.

I have used my Insingo for the past 4+ years and the washers have polished the blade almost to a mirror where the two make contact andvthe ceramic detent has a very nice groove.

I cannot help but feel we are over thinking a lot of aspects and should just use our knives.

My apologies for rambling. Enjoy your knife and just use her in good health.

 

[unit]

Polishing the washers is something that is done by hand at CRK (or was shown to be in the "Meet the Maker" series). So it is not a foreign idea. The video shows a fellow doing it, then checking the swing of the blade. Is it still done this way?

I have handled a few of these and some swung freely and some don't. Is it a foregone conclusion that some are polished more precisely than others? Is it a bad idea to polish yours if your blade does not swine freely and they do not appear to have been polished?

Perhaps it is overthinking, but I can certainly understand why some do it.

To clarify, I'm speaking about the observation of blade swing with the lockbar depressed. Further, the older classics I have handled (new old stock) seemed to swing much more freely than some 21s. This may support the idea that they are not polished out and fitted like they used to be (but I have a fairly small population sample for the new old stock older knives).

Carey on...

 

[flipe8]

I could never understand why anyone want to polish the washers.

I have used my Insingo for the past 4+ years and the washers have polished the blade almost to a mirror where the two make contact andvthe ceramic detent has a very nice groove.

I cannot help but feel we are over thinking a lot of aspects and should just use our knives.

My apologies for rambling. Enjoy your knife and just use her in good health.

I agree. I would think polishing the washers(depending on the abrasiveness of the medium used, could lead to a difference in the thickness between washers/bushing and the blade, possibly leading to side to side blade play if too much material is removed?

 

[unit]

I agree. I would think polishing the washers(depending on the abrasiveness of the medium used, could lead to a difference in the thickness between washers/bushing and the blade, possibly leading to side to side blade play if too much material is removed?

Yes, you are correct, and it is not an operation that should be conducted haphazardly. None the less it is something that CRK is supposed to do, or used to do, so I'm not sure the concept is a bad idea if executed properly.

 

[nyefmaker]

When I "polish" my washers and I will call it that, this is my procedure. I take a paper towel and lay it down on a hard flat surface like a counter top or table top. I lay the washer down and place my finger over it and just rub it back and forth. This will remove the old lube and the oxidation that forms on materials such as bronze, copper, etc. If done correctly, you should see some "black" residue. Doing this does not affect the thickness of the washer, the paper towel is hardly abrasive enough to damage the washer, plus your keeping it flat in the process. When done with one side, simply flip it over and do the other side. I have been doing it this way since I have owned sebenzas. For me, it works and does not damage the part in any way shape of form. I highly recommend doing this and ONLY this to help maintain your sebenza washers. NOTHING else needs to be done to them.

 

[pmek5]

Good advice. Thanks nyefmaker.

 

[kidcongo]

Yes, you are correct, and it is not an operation that should be conducted haphazardly. None the less it is something that CRK is supposed to do, or used to do, so I'm not sure the concept is a bad idea if executed properly.

The polishing seen in the Blade HQ video is to adjust thickness so the pivot can be tightened down all the way on a 21 without being too tight, or too loose. I would argue this is done once at the factory, and if done properly, any more polishing (other than the mild polish suggested by nyefmaker) is just resulting in a looser fit to the knife. Any loose knife will feel smooth.

Respectfully unit, I would go easy on those washers! You can of course get new ones if you thin them out.

 

[victorf]

I could never understand why anyone want to polish the washers.

I have used my Insingo for the past 4+ years and the washers have polished the blade almost to a mirror where the two make contact andvthe ceramic detent has a very nice groove.

I cannot help but feel we are over thinking a lot of aspects and should just use our knives.

My apologies for rambling. Enjoy your knife and just use her in good health.

I couldn't agree more on not polishing washers - especially if correct process is not followed.

Unlike you, most people lacking understanding and believe polishing fitted/close tolerance washer is a good thing. Some even say, factory does it, that must be good! IMO. In short: In the right hands - yes, but for the majority - no!

I don't know about other's CRKs out there. I measured mine when it was apart. The total difference was .0012" between washers/blade and pivot sleeve. It was a mere .0006" per side. I had also noticed my two washers had closed to no wear: blade side had radial polish lines/few even high spots and the handle side no telltale wear indicators, other than burr on the all the edges(most likely, burr were from the manufacturing process, especially if it was formed using punch press).

Since my Insingo had .0006" clearance, I just left it without creating more clearance and simply, let the Christo Lube that CRK supplied to take up the slack. Ended up with very slick opening/closing, but, not silky smooth as my William Henry with its button lock and teflon bushing combo.

Using paper towel to polish? Well, burrs from sharpen knife with soft steel can be removed, after laying blade flat and stroke over soft strop!

Bottom line - your knife.

 

[Krissig12]

I polished them with this method

A few passes with almost no pressure on 1000 grit sandpaper that was placed on glass

Light pressure on a green compound loaded strop for about a minute.


They came out nicely polished and now I can tighten down the pivot all the way and still have a free swinging blade when the lockbar is depressed. There's also ZERO blade play side to side. I've cranked on it and I've never been able to feel any movement. so I highly doubt that I thinned them out too much. I would say that before doing it, the washers were just a little too thick