so....very confused.

Its really hard to buy something expensive, then admit that lower priced products are just as good. If you want a more expensive knife go for it, but its not going to outperform my Beckers at 1/2-1/3 the cost.
 
Ok, maybe this belongs in there... and maybe it doesn't.

I totally agree that Beckers are amazing in their price range, and that most knives out there that they are compared with are made out of similar materials (aka, 1095). I also agree that their designs are great (love the handle). Their value is amazing, and probably class leading.

Now in general, I know that the Beckers will cut just as well, chop just as well, and do pretty much everything almost as well and will certainly be almost indistinguishable the to the other 1095 knives out there (usually comparing them to the RAT knives) as long as the blades are in the same "weight class" and the designs are similar. What I'm not sure about, is how well 1095 compares to INFI (Busse). From what I've heard, it seems like that stuff is amazing. It seems to me like these guys are the only ones with a leg to stand on in the "my knife is 'better' than yours" type discussions. Given, I know that in general, the Beckers will cut just as well as the INFI knives do (sharp is sharp to the material being cut), but are there real life circumstances where the benefits of INFI are worth it?

Not sure if what I was meaning to come across in this post made it out, but hopefully all 'yall can tell that I'm in no way bashing becker, but am more curious about how good INFI is, and if it ever really makes a difference.
 
ocnLogan said:
..... are there real life circumstances where the benefits of INFI are worth it?
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I don't think I've ever read, seen or heard an account of SAR standing over a lifeless body and saying "You know, if his knife had held an edge longer, the poor bastard would have made it."

INFI is good steel for sure, but the answer to your question, for me at least, would be "no". It's just too easy to keep a quality 1095 blade sharp enough to work with in real life circumstances.
 
tradewater said:
I don't think I've ever read, seen or heard an account of SAR standing over a lifeless body and saying "You know, if his knife had held an edge longer, the poor bastard would have made it."

INFI is good steel for sure, but the answer to your question, for me at least, would be "no". It's just too easy to keep a quality 1095 blade sharp enough to work with in real life circumstances.
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this made me laugh to myself haha.
 
tradewater said:
I don't think I've ever read, seen or heard an account of SAR standing over a lifeless body and saying "You know, if his knife had held an edge longer, the poor bastard would have made it."

INFI is good steel for sure, but the answer to your question, for me at least, would be "no". It's just too easy to keep a quality 1095 blade sharp enough to work with in real life circumstances.
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1095 Beckers can be sharpened on a rock in the field if need be. many other steels are too hard to make that practical, but i suppose eventually could be done. key word is eventually.
 
Thats kinda what I thought the responses would be, and honestly, I agree. I was just wondering.

And like I was saying, it seems like those with INFI steel are really the only ones that stand out to me as being made out of a superior material, but personally, its not worth the extra money.
 
ocnLogan said:
Thats kinda what I thought the responses would be, and honestly, I agree. I was just wondering.

And like I was saying, it seems like those with INFI steel are really the only ones that stand out to me as being made out of a superior material, but personally, its not worth the extra money.
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using simple words and small sentences, how you describe technically why their steel is "better"? what real world aspects come into play?

magic and faith are harder to quanitfy :)
 
warning - novelized rambling ahead -- but I'm trying to make a point if you want to read it.

crimsonfalcon07 said:
I'd certainly like to see an ESEE or Swamp Rat owner do a destruction test like that other fellow. That thread where he went to town on lawn mowers, refrigerators, and concrete blocks sold me on the BK2. It's a very hefty knife, and very easy to customize. I was surprised by how heavy it was. Is the ESEE 5 the same weight?
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Actually, there was a thread on the old ESEE forum where one of the mods "went stupid" with his ESEE 5 -- chopped a hole in a smoker to make a "hobo fire pit", batonned it through his vacuum cleaner motor, etc...

For the folks asking about INFI and where it shines: the advantages to the steel & HT really show up in choppers - that's where the toughness, abrasion resistance, & edge holding ability really come into play. Under 7" or 8" blades it's difficult to see any performance enhancement.

also keep in mind in most manufactured goods (not custom or high end luxury items where you're also paying for a name), the first 20% of the cost gets you 80% of the performance. This is true in cars, stereo equipment, watches, camping gear, clothing, and knives.
In knives - since that's what we're mostly looking at here, lets do some comparisons:
Is a $30 Rodan twice as good a knife as a $15 Mora?
is a BK2 twice as good a knife as a Condor Rodan? 1095 vs 1075, grivory handles vs polypropylene, more duarble finish, glass filled nylon vs leather sheath. Probably not twice as good - but still nicer feel in hand, slight improvement in edge holding, ergonimics, finish, etc...
now we double the price again - BK2 vs ESEE 5: micarta scales hand fit to each knife, slightly more "custom" HT, smaller batches w/fewer "oops" blades going out (not that there are a lot of bad knives coming out of Olean, percentage-wise, but there are a lot of blades coming out of Olean...), baked epoxy finish, kydex sheath... Probably not twice as good, but enough performance "tweaks" to justify the price difference to some. People who mod their BK2 make a lot of the same adjustments to their knife to make it more comfortable.
Swamprat and Scrapyard have done knives in this size range in the past in this price range, but they came without sheaths, were limited runs, and current pricing is driven by scarcity/collectors value.
Double the price again - the ASH-1 combat Grade was originally around $300 base - changing up the handle materials or the finish raised the cost. Sheath options were custom only and also raised the price. Did performance double? no. But again we're looking at smaller production runs, limited availability times, available out of only select outlets or a single website. I'm not knocking Busse or Bussekin -- they make good stuff, it's just a different set of pricing/value criteria.

Mostly for me, it comes down to what feels best in hand that does what I want it to do and is worth to me what I pay for it. I own Becker, ESEE, Busse, Condor, Cold Steel, CRKT, Kabar, Kershaw, etc... and a handful of customs. Do I judge a knife by the price tag? Of course. If it seems badly made or otherwise not worth what is being asked, I don't buy it. If I have to buy one sight unseen, then after it's in hand I decide if it's worth holding onto. If not, I sell or trade it off ASAP. Sometimes I own & use a knife for a while - then sell it off to fund a new purchase. We all do -- that's part of why we're here.
buy the knives you like, use the knives you buy. Don't be too quick judge someone else by the knives they like or buy - maybe they disapprove of your choices, too.
 
ocnLogan said:
Thats kinda what I thought the responses would be, and honestly, I agree. I was just wondering.

And like I was saying, it seems like those with INFI steel are really the only ones that stand out to me as being made out of a superior material, but personally, its not worth the extra money.
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The composition of INFI is well known and has been for a while, there's no magic involved and its certainly not superior. The heat treating process is still under wraps but if someone invented a new way to make 'superior' steels he would sell the patent and retire a multimillionaire. Like all steel its probably better in some areas and worse in others. I have not had the opportunity to beat the hell out of one but for general use I never notice a difference in 'toughness'. That being said, they do look pretty, and they are interesting designs/colors :thumbup: If I had some money to spend I would jump on the opportunity to get a nice one from the factory or go to his booth at a blade show. I would not however pay dealer prices.
 
Bladite said:
using simple words and small sentences, how you describe technically why their steel is "better"? what real world aspects come into play?

magic and faith are harder to quanitfy :)
Click to expand...

Well, I have no experience with INFI, so I'm saying that right off. What I've ready about it, it seems like the added ductility is impressive, and its main cool feature. Also, the HT is a bit harder (61ish right?, instead of most Beckers around 57-59), but its because of the ductility, I hear its easier to repair damage to the edge (meaning, less chips, more rolls that can be steeled/stropped back more easily).

I also hear it is almost a stainless, which is nice.

I'm still open to things, I'm just asking questions.
 
1066vik said:
buy the knives you like, use the knives you buy. Don't be too quick judge someone else by the knives they like or buy - maybe they disapprove of your choices, too.
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+1 I feel as if somewhere, a nail has been hit on the head.

Sure, there will always be those that spend less or more on a similar product: I find that, generally, the more I use something, the more I am willing to spend on it until I reach the point of "lasts forever". Past that, it's just fit, finish, and "tweaks". I also realize that, at least with my budget, it does not pay to buy an expensive knife as a "user".

I'm still new around here and haven't had all the experience with other brands that I wish I did to make this post; but why I'm here is that Beckers, to me, have a straightforward, "no nonsense" philosophy that lets us get a lot of performance at a price that lets us use them well and add our own tweaks if we want to:thumbup:

Put simply, as long as your knife does what you want it to, you win.
 
ThePointyEnd said:
+1 I feel as if somewhere, a nail has been hit on the head.

Sure, there will always be those that spend less or more on a similar product: I find that, generally, the more I use something, the more I am willing to spend on it until I reach the point of "lasts forever". Past that, it's just fit, finish, and "tweaks". I also realize that, at least with my budget, it does not pay to buy an expensive knife as a "user".

I'm still new around here and haven't had all the experience with other brands that I wish I did to make this post; but why I'm here is that Beckers, to me, have a straightforward, "no nonsense" philosophy that lets us get a lot of performance at a price that lets us use them well and add our own tweaks if we want to:thumbup:

Put simply, as long as your knife does what you want it to, you win.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Its why I really love the Becker line of knives. They scream usefulness, and value.
 
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