So what's up with Queen

I live 20 minutes from the Queen factory. I often hold their knives before buying (and recommend doing so whenever possible before buying). The knives in the showroom are always at A+ quality, as can be expected. I assume large runs that are sent out to distributors don't have the same quality control as a 20 piece SFO for a club or private person. I agree, quality isn't at 100%, but I believe it is better now in 2014 than it was in 2011 when the Daniels took over. I think they are on the road to improvement. In another forum I frequent both Ryan Daniels and the head of sales commented that they had recently purchased quite a few new pieces of machinery that they expect will help in their QC department. Time will tell if this helps, but I have high hopes for 2015 with Queen.

I have many Queen knives ranging from the early 70's to present. All are of perfect quality, although I admit I handled every knife before I paid for it. Queen has a long history in this country, and specifically in my neck of the woods, I would like to see it continue for my lifetime. I think the Daniels care about their product more than the previous owners of Queen, I'm rooting for them.
 
Rookie82 said:
I think the Daniels care about their product more than the previous owners of Queen, I'm rooting for them.
Click to expand...

Ken Daniels is pure gold. I would not bet against him. He loves, loves, loves pocket knives and is committed to turning that ship around. :)
 
midnight flyer said:
Agree. But then, not every feels like they have to agree with us, right? A couple of vendors I have bought from (like Knifeworks, but not the same vendor I bought the knife I referenced from) told me they simply ship waaaaay too many knives to look at them before they go out.



I owe the current ownership of Queen nothing. To extend the fact that I didn't work out the knife situation with them to your specifications being tantamount to slighting the traditional knife community is absurd. Queen should be responsible for their own manufacturing protocols and techniques or they will fail.

Take a look at car manufacturers. How many have had the idea of collaborative quality control? How many repeat buyers do you get when you are putting out an inferior product? Think of all the failed brands... it applies to all industry. People buy products based on expectation of quality, not with their fingers crossed that they won't have to do a lot follow up to make things right. I bought 9 - 10 knives from that same vendor, and three of the knives were problematic. One took a pair of pliers to get open (literally, as I couldn't get the pick to seat well enough to pry it open), one was a Dan Burke Barlow that had nippers used to cut the pins and were left sharp enough to cut my hands (sent back - I figured if I filed and polished the pins it would void the warranty, was informed by vendor I was correct), and the last one I had problems with, the round bolstered stockman with the pathetic spring.

I understand that not all manufactured goods are the maker's best efforts. It comes with having employees, and I can accept that from myself as well. But when you have a 30% failure rate, I can't find an excuse for that. I have heard them, too. Mostly insulting excuses, but they are there. I am a contractor, but I started out my company on fine carpentry work, and that is what built my business. Like any other proud craftsman, I am completely insulted when someone says "you need to expect problems since there is so much hand work involved". Hand work, building by hand, etc., used to be a promise of quality, not an excuse for second rate goods.

I don't know if you have your own business or not, but I have for a little over 30 years. You are incorrect in your assumption that quality control is a cooperative, collaborative effort. All responsibility for me, my employees, and any subcontrators I use all fall directly on my shoulders to deliver the quality of product I promise when I sign a contract. I don't expect my clients (nor do I know of any successful businesses that do) to be involved in what amounts to daily running of my business to ensure that I turn out a quality product. They pay me to turn out a finished product they cannot. My name is on the door, the 10 - 20 guys on the job work for me under my supervision, and the buck stops with me. Period. I don't shirk any responsibility for any aspect of my company.

Quality control is not a collaborative effort, or a goal setting exercise between client and company. Quality control is the sole responsibility of the manufacturer (or service provider) and customer service is the result of unmet goals or expectations, or to resolve the occasional mistake or poor quality end product that happens now and then.

Perhaps you should consider too, that when I called Queen at the suggestion of the vendor, they told me that there really wasn't anything they could do for a weak spring on a knife. So back to the vendor I go, with his prediction I would get a knife with a different problem. That being said, if I had known that the spring would get even weaker, I would have sent it back, hard feelings or not.

Lest this get too preachy, you should know as well that the vendor is a well respected contributor to this sub forum, a good guy, and I trust his judgement. I have bought several knives from him. Some had annoying problems, nothing serious, and one he even fixed himself and sent back. Personally speaking, I was glad that he told me that with the stock he had on hand I could wind up with a worse specimen of that model from Queen instead of just slapping a box in the mail with another knife using so I could see if the next one was better. When he told me that something else would likely be wrong, I took him at his word.



First, I never said I would only buy old stock. You are either making false assumptions or have juxtaposed my post with someone else's.

Second, in fact I never said I would buy anymore Queen products. I said "no more Queens for now".

I trust the folks in this sub forum and their candid reporting on their experiences with vendors, manfacturers and end products. That is the real value of this community for me; unvarnished, truthful reporting of facts and experiences. I won't be sending the current owners of Queen any money so they can keep experimenting and trying to "get it right". According to their own bios, they have all been in the knife production business well long enough to get their product right, which to me makes it even a little less excusable for them to put out a poor product. A couple of Queens I have now are the best fit an best finished knives I own, and with their D2, I rarely looked at other knives for purchase. When I start seeing reports here on BF from happy customers that they have reversed things, I will likely be interested in Queen again.

Robert
Click to expand...

Sorry Midnight, I created a misunderstanding, my last paragraph was adressing other posters not you.


Per QC, you have to partner with your customers or else how will you know what they need, want and are willing to pay? That is part of GEC's success. It is very hard to get an idea of how satisfied your customers are and where your employees are not fulfilling your expectations. It is much harder, as the boss/owner to know your weaknesses and needs for improvement. Customer complaints are often your only hope. That is why, I believe that Queen deserves feedback if they screw up. A phone call to whoever answers that day is not the same as a return to a dealer or a return to the manufacturer.
 
jc57 said:
They didn't start using D2 until 2002, so if that tang stamp means 1989, then no, it's not D2. Judging by the lack of patina, unless you buffed it, I'm guessing that's some variety of stainless? I assume the black stuff on the blade is just grunge.

http://www.queencutlery.com/1989.php

http://www.queencutlery.com/uploads/Model_70__7-12-2014.pdf
Click to expand...


Queen used 440C until the late 70's as far as I know. By the mid 70's knife users had developed an appreciation for stainless steel, so Queen for a few years included the steel type in the blade etch. The attached images are a Country Cousin from 1977. Note the "440C" in the blade etch. I have a factory letter from Queen from 1976 stating that Queen Steel was 440C at that time.

I have seen later 70's Queen knives where the blade is etched simply "440 Stainless" instead of 440C, so that may have been the transition point to 440A. Probably 1979 or so.
 

Attachments

  • $_57.jpg
    $_57.jpg
    74.9 KB · Views: 43
  • $_57 (1).jpg
    $_57 (1).jpg
    38.5 KB · Views: 39
I have read and been told that if it is stamped Queen steel it is most likely 440C.
 
okbohn said:
Ken Daniels is pure gold. I would not bet against him. He loves, loves, loves pocket knives and is committed to turning that ship around. :)
Click to expand...


Derrick, Who is Ken Daniels in the knife community, or should I say what is his history with knives?
 
I just received a Queen 09 Stockman from one of our very own dealers. Granted this knife was manufactured several years ago (pre Ken Daniels), but despite the stated immunity of the curly zebra series to poor QC, the knife I received was completely unacceptable. Fit and finish was poor..... very weak springs and significant blade wobble. It's going back tomorrow. I will never buy another Queen without first being able to inspect it in person. So sad because I was very much looking forward to carrying this particular knife. A small sample size for sure, but I think I will look to Böker for a 4" stockman in wood.

Peter
 
So, someone associated with Queen left to be part of GEC years ago , and is now back and a key player at Queen?

So maybe quality suffered partly due to talent loss?

And so maybe now things will improve?

I've gotta say "maybe" a lot since we're on a forum.

But that would make sense.

Maybe.


So, am I anywhere near on track here?
 
Peter I regret to hear of your experience, a knife in that state should not really be in a dealer's stock in the first place, but anyway.....:rolleyes:

I don't think that the Zebra or BEM models are immune from faults, far from it. I have had two Zebra Teardrops that had/have issues that annoy me: significant gaps and sunk spring on open on one and a very crudely finished slab on the mark side of another (squared off not radiused as it should be). It is the Carved Bone series in D2 (both White and Amber) that have captivated me. Although, I hear that the latest Carved Bone under the new owner, is of inferior quality in appearance and in the hand, not very encouraging. :(

A Schatt & Morgan that I was lucky enough to win somewhere else is also of the latest type. The polishing of the stainless blades is very odd, sort of cellulite Orange peel effect, it's not that well finished either. A Mini Muskrat I got this summer is generally very well finished but for some totally bizarre reason I CANNOT get any kind of edge to take on the stainless blades! This is 420 and should be very easy, a knife that won't cut is about as useful as....supply the analogy yourself. I start to wonder if some kind of merger between GEC and Queen may be on the cards in the future, given the recent intertwined history:confused:
 
Last edited:
My first post on Bladesforums was asking about what stockman to buy
I was comparing a Case yellow CV, a Mooremaker (Camillius) and a Queen delrin in D2, they were all about $35
I followed the classic wisdom and purchase all three.

The quality of the Queen #26 in jigged Black Cherry (delrin) in D2 was stellar
Equal to any GEC on the market now
There was an eBay dealer that had an old salesman supplying him, this elder gentleman had a supply of Queen
I was able to get knives in Cocobolo and the White BoneStag

Yes many knives needed rebeveling, and I purchased a DMT Aligner jig with E Course to E Fine, which took care of it
I as a matter of course rebevel my blades
But I can see why it is a show stopper, getting a blade with an obtuse factory edge
Quite honestly, very foolish of Queen

The Heritage were the last Queen knives I purchased, my dealers would not ship outside of CONUS, I had saturated with knives and stopped buying, and lastly the quality of the Queen knives were to problematic
So I have not seen new production knives, and cannot comment on them

Queen's D2
I just purchased a Becker BK 24 in D2, and as usual I rebeveled it using the DMT Aligner starting with E Course and it went very fast
This speed of sharpening made me realize how much harder the Queen D2 is, and therefore how much wear resistant it is and hold an edge longer
I rebevel the Queen blades on the DMT, and after that I strop ti keep the edge
Once in a while I will give it some licks on an E Fine DMT
Queen D2 is well worth the effort

You want to try out Queen
Mike Lathem at Collector Knives sells the Economy Line in Delrin and Carbon, for none over $35
Be prepared to rebevel the blades
But you will get a keeper and a worker, with lovely swedges and good F&F
They are best price point vs quality on the market
 
I'd love a Queen barlow. One was my first knife from my grandfather 62 years ago.
It's what got me started on a lifetime of collecting.
What is Mike Latham's Collector Knives URL?

OK, found Mike's site, but alas no barlows in sight :-(
Thanks
Rich
 
Last edited:
Rich S said:
I'd love a Queen barlow. One was my first knife from my grandfather 62 years ago.
It's what got me started on a lifetime of collecting.
What is Mike Latham's Collector Knives URL?

OK, found Mike's site, but alas no barlows in sight :-(
Thanks
Rich
Click to expand...

Rich; it may or may not be what you are looking for, but Queen recently did a short run of single blade barlows, Schatt Morgan tang stamp with 1095 carbon blade steel. Check Queen's factory website for info.
 
davek14 said:
So, someone associated with Queen left to be part of GEC years ago , and is now back and a key player at Queen?
So maybe quality suffered partly due to talent loss?
And so maybe now things will improve?
I've gotta say "maybe" a lot since we're on a forum.
But that would make sense.
Maybe.
So, am I anywhere near on track here?
Click to expand...

Not really :D
Bill Howard was a principal at Queen pre-2007 and left to start GEC. One of his good customers and friends was Ken Daniels; whom started GEC with him. When Bill bought Ken out of GEC, Ken purchased Queen (which was struggling). I don't know how many workers followed Bill from Queen; but my personal opinion is that it was more of the mentality that left than the people that caused the slide.
 
knifeswapper said:
I don't know how many workers followed Bill from Queen; but my personal opinion is that it was more of the mentality that left than the people that caused the slide.
Click to expand...

Let me know when they get straightened out and their quality is good. I want to by a Queen someday. :D
 
Markesharp said:
Let me know when they get straightened out and their quality is good. I want to by a Queen someday. :D
Click to expand...

The great thing about pocket knives, and the fact that people have been collecting / hoarding them since the 1970's, is that there are always specimens around from times gone by. Don't feel that you have to pick up something hot of the presses. One thing I have always done when I feel like we were going thru a rough spot at the factory was to round up all the product from the better times. That gives you something to take out of the vault and rub on from time to time ;)

Pick up a Queen City Congress or Pardue collab. or ACSB Congress / Gunstock / Jack / Folding Hunter / Mini Trapper / Cattle King / Large Toothpick / Mountain Man (non-lock).
 
knifeswapper said:
Not really :D
Bill Howard was a principal at Queen pre-2007 and left to start GEC. One of his good customers and friends was Ken Daniels; whom started GEC with him. When Bill bought Ken out of GEC, Ken purchased Queen (which was struggling). I don't know how many workers followed Bill from Queen; but my personal opinion is that it was more of the mentality that left than the people that caused the slide.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the clarification guy.

My impression was that quality suffered around 2000 and people were feeling confident as to it's eventual return. Might be wrong there as well, if that could even be quantified.

I got my Canoe 3-4 years ago and liked it fine. Great cost/quality ratio as has been said and the D2 gets lots of points.

When I went to the local shop and got the used, 440A (grrr) Country Cousin the other day I also got a NIB D2 Country Cousin :rolleyes:. It was the last in stock and the owner felt he had had it at least 3 years. It was good quality and even had a decent edge profile.

I think their prices have gone up quite a bit. (although I got the NIB knife for "the old price")
 
One of my favorite newer Queen knives is their #69 in ACSB. It's a Spear/Pen and is 3 1/2" closed. CK calls it a Balloon Jack and I've seen others call it a Straight Jack. It's in D2 steel and the quality is excellent. Queen is no longer making it so grab one if you can.

View attachment 496242
 
Thanks for the reply, Derrick. Much appreciated. I've held off on Queen for a couple of years, but feel now might be the time to try them out again. Sadly, Ram's horn was sold out by the time I read this. lol

One of the problems with these kinds of discussions are that people compare the quality of a company's product through different generations/owners/eras of time. That confuses the issue of what a customer might expect from current production. (Although as Mike points out, there is still plenty of NOS out there).

okbohn said:
The Indian River Jacks are the best I have seen. They are still not to the level of GEC, but close.

Queen is willing to use different steels, GEC is not.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top