So who sets these standards for all this knife testing???

STIHL -give us a fing break o.k.
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if you are going to use the car crash analogy at least keep it sane .
Heres mine:
I take the wifes car out for a drive and hit the guy in front of me at 5mph and the entire front end of the car breaks off.:0
Do I have a reasonable expectation that the car company would be interested and should the car be repaired?I think so.
try that on for size,
troy
 
Hello,

I think Each Person sets his own Standards as far as Testing goes. Take a look at ED FOWLER and his testing,He tests his knives for the tasks he expects them to do, and they do it.

I myself even have Expected Performance
levels of the Knives I make, But i would not expect one of my TALONITE MEUK series knives to be able to withstand the same amount of
Heavy use as say one of my COMBAT PATROL BOWIES in 1/4 inch stock.

The only Standard of testing i am Aware of is in the ABS(American Bladsmith Society), and that doesnt even impress me much as i can Pass that Test with a STOCK REMOVAL blade.

I think it gets down to the Maker making
Knives for his cutomers that meet or exceed
there Requirements for there intended Usages.

If a maker tells somone there knives can Pry open Swiss bank vaults then they better do it. If they say they can take being
thrown in between the rollers and Tracks of a M113 then so be it ect..ect..

I am more than confident about my own steel knives to perform in the Wilderness, and meet or exceed all my expectations of them to do so. And i would never claim to somone who bought one they could do anything
more or less.

my .02

Allen
 
ok but......wouldnt anyone with a functioning brain work a blade stuck in a log up and down in the direction of the edge rather than prying it sideways? duh! sounds to me like you are trying to break the blade! or is common sense not used in knife testing??
 
Tim, folks with common sense don't buy custom knives. Especially yours.

It takes an extraordinarily sensitive person with finely tuned sensibilities to appreciate your knives. And their cost.

I think knife testing is an Art. Just like knife making. There is no perfect test. No perfect steel. No perfect edge. No perfect maker. And not all good knives will perform equally in the same tests. That does not make them bad knives.

Knives designed to be jammed into logs and laterally torqued would obviously be designed, made, and heat treated differently from knives intended only to slice. Should all knives with a thin, pointy tip be tempered to extreme flexibility? Or is a hard, but brittle tip acceptable in some knives. I think it depends on the knife.

Lastly, without being able to witness the test, examine the knife, the log, and measure the force applied, I can only assume that a tip breaking when jammed into a log and torqued had more to do with user error than maker error. But I am often wrong.

Paracelsus
 
Who the heck would try to split wood with a camp knife anyway? Some kind of idiot? Anybody stupid enough to try to split wood with a camp knife would probably be stupid enough to deliberately crash his car into a rock two inches (5cm) high, and complain if the wheel fell off.
 
One more example. I have a lot of woodcarving knives. These have a Terrible handle to blade ratio. They are almost ALL handle. But I think that makes them beautiful. The long handle increases the amount of force exerted at the cutting edge by taking advantage of leverage. These blades are almost always tempered very hard to enhance edge holding, and are often brittle. I have broken the tips off several of these knives. Invariably, it was because I employed some improper technique. These knives are meant for Cutting. Any wedging, or prying action is likely to cause failure.

Some knife testers seem to want All knives to be able to do the same things. I suppose If we are talking about large camp knives which will be chopping a lot of wood, it would not be reasonable to expect tip breakage when stabbed lightly into a log and twisted. But does that standard apply to ALL knives? Was the knife that broke designed for such use? It doesn't sound like it from the post in the recent thread.

I have a 5 inch blade forged by Daniel Winkler. It has an extreme distal taper, and is very thin at the tip. File work extends all the way down the spine. I would NOT expect this knife to survive the 'stab log and twist' test.

On the other hand, I have a 5 inch blade forged by Jim Crowell. It carries a lot of mass at the tip. I would be very disappointed if it failed such a test. If I get very brave, I might try it. But I don't think I would blame the maker if either knife broke during this 'test'.

Paracelsus

[This message has been edited by Paracelsus (edited 03-26-2000).]
 
I wonder how knives that have actually been _used_ in extremis would pass these 'tests'.

Items like the Randall #14 have proven records to go on. Maybe they aren't as strong as some newer designs but they _work_.

And if you need to chop....GET AN AXE!


Sounds like a buncha wannabee warriors making up 'what-if's to me.


Regards,

Pat
 
ppl with common sense dont buy custom knives,especially mine?? damn! thats quite a statement. can you explain further please?

i also find that many ppl appreciate my knives, knowing the price or not. so ppl with common sense cant appreciate a good design, regardless of the price? i am really confused now
frown.gif
 
James Mattis writes: "If the maker or manufacturer has made specific claims of heavy use or abuse tolerance, like lateral stress, it might be appropriate to test
those claims before relying on the knife in an emergency situation."

James, obviously some knifemakers and dealers in here do not agree. I do, However, and so do most survival/camp knife users.

Cougar Allen writes:"I am very disturbed"--No argument from me Coug..So am I....

Allen Blade writes: "
posted 03-26-2000 04:21 PM            
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If a maker tells somone there knives can Pry open Swiss bank vaults then
they better do it. If they say they can take being
thrown in between the rollers and Tracks of a M113 then so be it
ect..ect..

I am more than confident about my own steel knives to perform in the
Wilderness, and meet or exceed all my expectations of them to do so. And
i would never claim to somone who bought one they could do anything
more or less."

Finally, a knifemaker with some common sense. Allen, I think we may have to deal.
______________________________
Paralysis writes:"Tim, folks with common sense don't buy custom knives. Especially yours.
It takes an extraordinarily sensitive person with finely tuned
sensibilities to appreciate your knives. And their cost."
____
I guess were talking about museum pieces here not user knives.
______________________________________
Cougar Allen writes:"would probably be stupid enough to deliberately crash his car into a
rock two inches (5cm) high, and complain if the wheel fell off."---Why are you making fun of my Hot Wheels. I didn't make fun of your G.I. Joe with the Kung Fu Grip, did I.
 
Well, the cheapest knife I have available is a little Jaguar folder that sells for $4 at a local store. It's made of 1/8" stock and tapers for the last half inch toward the point. Chiro's knife was 1/4" stock and he pushed it 1/4" into soft wood and pried the handle 1" to the side ... he didn't say how long the knife was ... mine is 5 5/8" long overall. I'll try prying my handle 1" too, so that'll be probably about twice the angular movement with about half the blade thickness ... let's see what happens ... don't worry, I've got my safety glasses on already ...

Hmm ... that was strange ... my $4 Jaguar didn't break off half an inch from the tip ... it didn't break at all ... didn't bend, either ... the only damage was to the wood! How can this be? Can steel be stronger than wood? I dunno ... I'm stumped.

Indeed do many strange things come to pass.

-Cougar :{)
 
I appreciate your knives Tim.At any price
smile.gif


Has anyone ever sent one back to you with a broken tip?If so did you give 'em hell?
troy
 
Tim, I'm sorry. I did not mean to offend you. Sometimes my Uncommon usage of language startles or surprises folks. I hold you and your knives in high regard.

What I was getting at was the fact that people who appreciate fine knives are anything But common. Knife knuts are Rare in our society. Folks that would be willing to pay $100 for a knife are Not common. Folks whose fine sense of craftmanship and aesthetics and good fortune allows them to consider spending more than $1500 for one of your knives and still think it a good deal are even rarer.

It was a feeble and useless attempt at humor in an all too contentious thread. And I agree with the points you have been making about this topic.

Cobalt, thank-you. Nobody has yet called me Paralysis. I like it. Fortunately, my mind works even while my body sits immobile.

Paracelsus, paralytic perambulator

[This message has been edited by Paracelsus (edited 03-26-2000).]
 
Cobalt :

Cougar Allen writes:"I am very disturbed"--No argument from me Coug..So am I....
Click to expand...

Why. This thread and the last have been very informative as certain makers have been very open about their attitude in regard to consumer evaluation - that is excellent information. I wish all makers would do the same when I asked about their products, would make life a lot easier.

I was considering getting a bowie from L6steel for some time, I figured that together with the forged bowie from Matt Lamey and the Busse BM I would be able to zero in exactly on the right design. However based on his attitude here I would have been in for a very negative experience - so now that possibility has been eliminated, excellent.


-Cliff
 
Ben E,
thnx
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and no i have never gotten a knife back with a brokent ip and yes i surely would give them hell
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Paracelsus,
i wasnt offended really, i just didnt think my collectors would appreciate your comment. some would say common sense tells you to buy custom knives to get exactly what you want for your purposes in the first place and would save you money in the long run.
biggrin.gif


i agree with lots said here and it does have a lot to do with the heat treating of the blade for the purpose of that particular knife. but i still think its an idiot that would pry the blade sideways if stuck in a log
tongue.gif
 
Um, I think L6Steel was joking, Cliff. HermanKnives, on the other hand, is either serious or he's very good at deadpan humor....

Maybe you and Cobalt and I and a bunch of other people belong in a Home for the Disturbed ... people who try to split wood with camp knives (heck, I even did it with a plastic-handled folder) and crash their cars into 2" (5cm) rocks ... I guess we've got to be disturbed ... apparently, sane people don't treat knives like we do....


------------------
-Cougar Allen :{)
--------------------------------------
This post is not merely the author's opinions; it is the trrrrrruth. This post is intended to cause dissension and unrest and upset people, and ultimately drive them mad. Please do not misinterpret my intentions in posting this.
 
I've been talking to HermanKnives on irc since I posted that ... now I think he is very good at deadpan humor. Sheesh -- he sure had me fooled ... makes me wonder if everybody in this whole flame war has been kidding all the time.

-Cougar :{)
 
Cliff, I know my humor is dry, but I figured you'd get it,hehe.

Too many people take this too seriously like TomW, STIHL. I'm enjoying this thread quite a bit. Cliff, Cougar is right, we are disturbed. We enjoy using blades for what we feel they should be used for. Sometimes, this causes damage.
 
Troy,
Are you just thick or what.Do you not see the point?????If you or anyone wants to test them....ask the maker for one!!Dont buy one,break it,and expect the maker to replace it!!!If you dont understand that....WELL THATS TO BAD!!!!
Try those pantys on
smile.gif


------------------
Jay
Life is like a box of chocolates,never know what your gona git!
 
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