So, you think your knives are sharp?

mross said:
Wow, I actually got ya'll away from your khuks long enough to read. :D How cool is that!

(Picture me gleefully rubbing my hands) Now if I can get ferguson reading and away from that wootz tulwar my ninjas may have a chance. :D
(Hey, It's tuff getting good ninjas these days)
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Mross, my ninja's are gonna kick your ninjas ass'es over that Wootz Tulwar!!!! :mad: :rolleyes: ;) :D
 
Yvsa said:
I don't know if it's possible to do this test but if it is a 10" thin blade should be enough. I don't think a sword would be as good because of its necessary thickness for durability.:)

The Napoleons are actually quite thin, compared to my other swords. You'll have to ask Bura about why I haven't managed to break one of them yet. When I make a bad cut, I make a bad cut. ;)

The mark of a good sword? Give it to a knucklehead like me and turn me loose. If it ain't broke by the end of the day, it's a keeper. :D
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I'll interject my two cents worth about old man Fikes. I'm pretty familiar with his antics since I AM him.

Couple of points. Tandy leather is not the only source of leather around. The thick leather 'belt' mentioned in the BLADE article was *belting*... flat leather belt that was used to drive machinery in days gone by... and I've seen some that was at least a foot wide and an inch thick. The belting was laminated, of course. Back at the time I made that cut, such belting could be picked up at any number of used machinery places.

And, as I remember the event, I did not cut the belting hanging from a 1/2 inch wide piece of masking tape. It was hanging from regular width masking tape... probably closer to an inch wide... and that single strand of tape had to be *taped* to the belt. The old belt was oil saturated and the single strand wouldn't stick on it's own. Could I make that cut every time? Why, hell no. And neither could anyone else that I know of... but I did it a number of times when it counted, including in front of a crowd at either the first or second Ashoken.

I also cannot cut a cigarette standing up in an empty rifle shell case every time. In fact, that is one of the most difficult cuts imaginable. And no... you don't have to smoke to try it.

Someone mentioned wanting to see some of this on video. I used to have an old video of some of my knives / swords being used to cut any number of things. I think it was shot ten or eleven years ago. There's been enough requests for it (since I've sneaked back into the shop to make a few more blades... and to teach my wife, Maggie, to forge blades) so that I had it transferred to DVD format. Strictly non-professional camera work... to say the least... but a fun watch if you can stand blank screen between takes. ;) If the rope cutting... 500+ pieces using two inches, or so, of blade (which would still slice newsprint easily after doing the rope) bores you to tears, punch the fast forward. You might enjoy some of the sharpness tests... cutting arm hair without touching the skin (you'll see where the phrase 'standing hair' came from... and laugh your butt off), pushing blades through paper back books, stuff like that. The DVD is ten bucks... enough to cover the cost of duping and mailing... and if anyone wants one, send payment to Jimmy L. Fikes P.O. Box 3457 Jasper, AL 35502. First ten people I hear from get the DVD's... and I have to cut it off at ten... otherwise customers who are waiting for them might just gang up and hang me. I'm damned slow at mailing stuff out, so be patient.

For a couple of recent cuts, I'll post a link to a blade that Don Fogg and I did as a joint effort. I forged and ground the piece. Don clayed the blade, I hardened and tempered it. Don polished it ,and I put on the final edge and wrapped the handle. This blade is an old design of mine that is used a lot on the DVD... called a 'jungle honey'. The URL leads to Don's website and pictures of the honey. Click on links once you're there to see shots of the blade in use. Bundles of *dried* bamboo being cut as part of the blade / edge testing... a cigarette paper rolled into a tube as part of the sharpness testing.

http://www.dfoggknives.com/availabl.htm

Have fun. ;)

Jimmy

OleyFermo@aol.com
 
Man you guys have to see this!!!>>>>>>> Mross


That's OK, Mross; HI forum welcomes everyone. Even knife makers.




munk
 
How's this for sharp?

Saturday evening I was sharpening one of my CRKT M16s, and I had got the edge SO sharp that the shadow from the knife edge lopped two legs off of my workbench before I could switch off the light.

Noah ;)
 
Methinks Bro. Fikes draws a long bow, so to speak. :rolleyes: Or as my grandpap used to say " I believe the gentleman is full of condensed apple pie!"
 
Noah Zark said:
How's this for sharp?

Saturday evening I was sharpening one of my CRKT M16s, and I had got the edge SO sharp that the shadow from the knife edge lopped two legs off of my workbench before I could switch off the light.

Noah ;)
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my friend isaac asimov has a knife alloyed with resublimated thiotimoline that is so sharp it cuts thru its target 2 seconds before you think about cutting.
 
Welcome to Bladeforums, Jimmy - and welcome to the Himalayan Imports forum specifically. Sure is nice to hear from you personally.
 
Thanks, Daniel,

It's a pleasure to be here. Actually I stop in from time to time to read the posts. Good info, good people. I usually keep pretty quite since the only time I open my mouth is to change feet :D This thread was just too much fun to resist, though. I ought to strangle my old buddy Steve Schwarzer... I told him that I didn't want an article written. Steve... being Steve... said that if I didn't give him some info and photos, he just make the article up. The so and so had me cornered, so to speak. I wouldn't tell him anything specific about *cutting* demos, so what he wrote is what he saw personally, or what people he knew and trusted told him.

As I told the forum's Mr. Ross in an email... take everything I say with a grain of salt. This also applies to anything said about me ;)

Thanks again for the welcome!

Jimmy
 
Good to have you aboard Jimmy.:D I figured that you were using the old machinery drive belts. Only way I know of to get leather that thick.
Do you know if the leather was the new treated stuff or the old vegetable tanned leather?
Methinks the new treated oil-resistant leather is tougher than the old vegetable tanned, the new stuff is a kind of green-gray or gray-green color when new.
 
Hi, Howard

Thanks for the warm welcome. I appreciate it :)

As to why Tai (or anyone) would want a knife sharp enough to curl shavings off a hair, I can only say that knives that are that sharp are fun... and easier to work with than a knife that's less sharp. Tai and I have a lots of good times razzing each other about sharp. In fact he just sent me some rough hard black Arkansas stone so that I can make my own sharpening stone. We plot and plan and cackle... and go cut something new that might show what sharp really is. Don Fogg had just whittled a beard hair into a fuzz stick with one of the jungle honeys we're making prior to Tai posting the photo of his 'hair whittling'. It's all in good fun... and who knows, we might learn something while we're playing.

Thanks Yvsa. Good to be here.

The belting was the old leather... vegetable tanned, most likely. A sharp knife was needed to cut the belting. The one I used at Ashoken had a ten inch blade, distal taper forged in, flat ground and about a quarter inch thick at the thickest area of the spine. Luck played a factor in the cut. The belting needed to be hit edge on with the blade, or it spun away from the cut. Any variation in angle meant no complete cut. If the belting twisted round in a breeze, no cut. Speed, of course, was a big factor... and I was a lot speedier back in those days than I am now ;) My guess is that any number of bladesmiths could make the same cut. It's not magic... nor is it BS... just a good blade and a good swing.

Jimmy
 
kronckew said:
my friend isaac asimov has a knife alloyed with resublimated thiotimoline that is so sharp it cuts thru its target 2 seconds before you think about cutting.
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I've heard about Issac's knives. Whether or not they actually cut before or after thinking about using it depends highly on if they are being observed or not at the time of the thought. I understand that his knives are used primarily by quantum mechanics in the course of their work.

Noah
 
Daniel Koster said:
He did mention being able to cut 1" rope 400 times....that is repeatable and worthy of respect.
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Boye cut 3000 pieces of one inch hemp a long time ago with one of his stainless blades, with the Basic line, Busse has done 2771 cuts live at Blade, and showed shaving ability up to 2500 cuts, and was still cuting paper really well when they ran out of rope, the Swamp Rat line cuts massive amounts as well, not to mention the full INFI line.

Ed Fowler says he can do the same with his 5160 knives, and up to 1000 cuts with his 52100 knives.
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Fowler cuts 3/8", one strand, Boye and Busse cut the full roll. You also need some measure of sharpness or you can cut essentially any amount of rope. Goddard used to measure the force required, so does Wilson, he cuts on a scale and compares the various steels he uses, he also does multiple runs to check consistency.

I used a D2 blade to cut 2045 slices of 3/8" on a two inch draw on a cutting board with a 10 lbs increase in force during the cuts. I also screwed it up because I got sloppy on the last thousand and was pressing too hard and cutting up the cutting board, only a 5 lbs increase in force was required through the first thousand cuts.

Note as well that blunting is a non linear process so if you relax your sharpness standards just a little, you can easily double the amount of rope cut, this can be extended indefinately.

munk said:
So, not really a valid test for a Khuk.
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The first two you could do as the media is so thin it will only see the edge. For the last it would be difficult to get a thick blade through the leather, do it with a 20"+ Ang Khola and I would be hell for impressed.

In regards to the tape holding it on though, take a piece of leather and cut it with a really sharp knife with a very thin and acute edge and you will see that the force required is minimal, so tape could hold it, some tape is also stronger than others and the surface of the leather makes a large difference as well.

The problem with these tests is that they are not sensible for juding sharpness because they are too much involved with luck and user skill to judge the edge consistently, you could easily get a sharper blade with higher cutting ability fail because of the user, they however are impressive on that respect for the part of the user.

They also of course test one aspect, for a complete profile you test the opposite which is edge durability the counterpart to sharpness and cutting ability.

I got a custom parang made some years back, I was happily cutting some brush around some trees I needed to fall when I wanged the blade right into a large rock. High quality steel with enough thickness at the edge for durability and it just impacted a little, no chipping, no primary grind damage.

That blade would never pass the leather cut however it has nothing to do with sharpness, it gets sharp enough, the profile is simply not thin enough however to pass through the leather, plus it has the wrong profile, for that you would want a convex arc like on the Valiant goloks, this one is concave.

Here is a shot of the Jungle Honey for those curious :

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28332

-Cliff
 
Noah Zark said:
I've heard about Issac's knives. Whether or not they actually cut before or after thinking about using it depends highly on if they are being observed or not at the time of the thought. I understand that his knives are used primarily by quantum mechanics in the course of their work.

Noah
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also depends on intent, if you were trying to trick it, and did not intend to really cut, it wouldn't. has another friend called shroedinger who liked to borrow isaac's knife to skin big cats, you may have heard of him & his cats as he was a famous big game hunter...rather interesting but gory stories available thru google....keywords 'shroedinger' and 'cat'
 
kronckew said:
also depends on intent, if you were trying to trick it, and did not intend to really cut, it wouldn't. has another friend called shroedinger who liked to borrow isaac's knife to skin big cats, you may have heard of him & his cats as he was a famous big game hunter...rather interesting but gory stories available thru google....keywords 'shroedinger' and 'cat'
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Way I heard it, Schroedinger liked to keep his cats locked up in boxes so that none of the quantum mechanics could use a knife on them. Apparently the cats would be a distraction to the quantum mechanics as they worked away repairing quanta.

Noah
 
I've seen the Jimmy Fikes video and yep you'll want to want to be close to
that fast forward button during the rope cutting demo ;)

Jimmy does know sharp, no doubt! I missed him at Ashokan, as I started
going a little later on but they do have some interesting things to see and
do there, it's a great get a way in Sept! :)

As to cutting that chunk of leather, man! that does sound impressive and
I'd not doubt that it happened, to recreate it may be a chore to do but
probably could get something close I bet.

Love that shot of the Jungle Honey, sweet blade!
G2
 
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