So you're outfitting the hands on a ranch ...

Years ago a man who ran cows on the same BLM ground we ran on. Three of his hands were taking a cow out to pasture, she was turbulent to say the least and being hauled alone got worse. They decided to unload her short of the usual unloading bank. She panicked, tried to jump over the side of the truck, got a hind leg caught in the stock rack and broke her leg. They did not have a knife, had to kill her with a rock! They then had to drive about 8 miles back to the ranch and get a knife, it was a very rough road and it took them a couple hours for the round trip. They drove back and cut her throat and gut her out.They loaded the carcass up and hauled her back, skinned her and hung her in the cooler. The meat was not bled out, the temperature over 100 degrees f.

The deal was that they got paid $500 a month along with a place to live and one beef. The rancher had them cut up the beef they had killed and gave them that meat, they had to eat it all winter. They were used to prime beef, this was a lot lacking!

There was no way they could cook the meat to make it remotely pleasant to eat. They complained bitterly - his response was that next time they would drive the extra distance to the unloading bank as they were told to do and in the future be prepared for wrecks with a knife. Two quit one had to eat the meat on his own. His dogs enjoyed the winter's feed, he did not.

A good lesson learned!

I demand all hands carry a knife at all times. When looks to have promise I teach them how to make a knife and scabbard. They are usually very proud of that knife and carry them at all times. If one is not able to make his own knife I make one for them and coach them through making a handle they like. These knives are marked with the hands name on one side, mine or the ranch brand on the other.

I consider folders a little better than nothing, but tolerate them. When they have a knife that is strong and handy in an emergency I feel better in that their lives and the lives of the animals and others who are working with them stand a better chance of survival when the man is prepared.

I do not feel that you can beat a well designed package - knife & scabbard
that are handy to get to and to put the knife back in the scabbard effortlessly an absolute necessity for safety and convenience. The scabbard never goes in a saddle bag, when you lose a horse you are without a knife. The saddle bags are OK for specialized knives like skinners, but not for your #1 knife.

I cut a rope only as a last resort as they are as paramount to doing your job well as the horse and knife.

More later, we are in a bad flood and got to go sand bag the bridge.
 
I consider folders a little better than nothing, but tolerate them. When they have a knife that is strong and handy in an emergency I feel better in that their lives and the lives of the animals and others who are working with them stand a better chance of survival when the man is prepared.

I do not feel that you can beat a well designed package - knife & scabbard
that are handy to get to and to put the knife back in the scabbard effortlessly an absolute necessity for safety and convenience. The scabbard never goes in a saddle bag, when you lose a horse you are without a knife. The saddle bags are OK for specialized knives like skinners, but not for your #1 knife.

More later, we are in a bad flood and got to go sand bag the bridge.

When I'm carrying one of my Trappers or Stockmans, I'm just as prepared as one of your guys who's carrying a fixed blade. It makes me feel so much better that you "tolerate" folders. But then again it's to your interest to push fixed blades.

By-the-way. Good luck with the flood. I hope you and your neighbors come through it ok. Prayers up for all in your area.
 
Well, I finally tracked down Kenny Friday night. I asked what he carried out on the trail and he jumped up and proud as a peacock pulled his....

8 Old Timer

from his pocket. I've never seen a man prouder to show me his knife!

I asked if he ever carried a fixed blade and he said he kept it in the saddle bag next to the fence pliers.

Met another guy this weekend who has been a back country outfitter with horses and pack strings. He said he carried a fixed blade for a while but they got in the way and cut up the saddles. He explained he wore his .357 on his left side to keep the right side of the saddle free for roping and other stuff. He said he ended up stapping it to the outside of the saddle bag within easy reach if he needed it. There were two others guys there to so I didn't get to ask what pocket knife he favored, if any.
 
Modoc Ed: Thanks for the well wishes.
My lack of faith in folders is for many reasons.
Strength: you just can't make a strong and safe folder for the really bad times, a little twist and you are out of a knife.
Availability: It is very tough to open most folders with frost bitten fingers and severe chills or one hand. Years ago a friend got his arm caught in a corn picker, he could easily have bled to death waiting for help. He made a tourniquet using a boot lace and amputated his arm just below the elbow with a folder. He said the hardest thing he had to do was open the folder with his teeth.

All fixed blades are not equal nor are all folders. A fixed blade needs a well designed scabbard to be man's best partner. It is a package deal, the skill of the man, design and development of the knife and scabbard and planning.
 
Hi Ed -- I agree with some of what you say but the theme in this thread seems to be where a fixed blade should be carried -- hip or saddle bag. I believe a fixed blade is of use but believe it is best carried in your saddle bags and not on your hip.

Regardless, folder or fixed blade is a matter of personal choice and both do get the job done.
 
Or carry a fixed blade like a scandinavian puuko style, where the sheath is notstrapped on a belt in a rigid position. I would think that a free swinging puuko sheath would slide out of the way in a fall or other mishap, yet can be drawn with one hand. The utility puuko by I. Jarvenpaa comes to mind. It has the belt loop mounted on a brass D ring, and swings loose.
 
Thanks a lot for your input, Ed. Any idea what the other ranchers in your area use?

Also, if you don't mind me asking, what's your brand? Mine is a Running JM.

James
 
The ranch brand on cows is a reverse FVF, the last F is as you see it. Horses a rocking pine tree, sheep a rocking E quarter circle spear that I could not pass up when it came available. Shire wish I could draw on this outfit.

Some carry folders, some fixed blades in their scabbards in a coat pocket, some a sheath knife. Very rarely so you see one carrying other than a specialised knife in their saddle bags. Some horses will stay with you in a wreck, others head back to the stock trailer or home and leave you cold.

Hands that have worn one of my knives in the pouch sheath soon become believers. Do not take this to mean my package is the best, others also make practical packages. I want my knife on my belt in the exact position I dictate for it, I always know exactly where it is, can get it out and put it back with one hand. If I am going way out, there is a revolver in a shoulder holster with me, knife on my belt.

If I am riding one of my horses they will stay with me, horses out of other strings you can never tell. There is no sensation more interesting than laying on your back listening to a horse leaving you as fast as he can. Years ago I got real busted up and can still her the sound of hooves pounding the dirt.

From what I read you understand what I mean.
 
The ranch brand on cows is a reverse FVF, the last F is as you see it. Horses a rocking pine tree, sheep a rocking E quarter circle spear that I could not pass up when it came available. Shire wish I could draw on this outfit.

Some carry folders, some fixed blades in their scabbards in a coat pocket, some a sheath knife. Very rarely so you see one carrying other than a specialised knife in their saddle bags. Some horses will stay with you in a wreck, others head back to the stock trailer or home and leave you cold.

Hands that have worn one of my knives in the pouch sheath soon become believers. Do not take this to mean my package is the best, others also make practical packages. I want my knife on my belt in the exact position I dictate for it, I always know exactly where it is, can get it out and put it back with one hand. If I am going way out, there is a revolver in a shoulder holster with me, knife on my belt.

If I am riding one of my horses they will stay with me, horses out of other strings you can never tell. There is no sensation more interesting than laying on your back listening to a horse leaving you as fast as he can. Years ago I got real busted up and can still her the sound of hooves pounding the dirt.
From what I read you understand what I mean.


That is a sound a man never forgets, Mr. Fowler.

Been there.
 
Sounds like a nice Honda or Polaris ATV would be better to have!

I understand the french have a way of grilling horse, that it tastes just like prime beef.:D
 
The ranch brand on cows is a reverse FVF, the last F is as you see it. Horses a rocking pine tree, sheep a rocking E quarter circle spear that I could not pass up when it came available. Shire wish I could draw on this outfit.

Like this, you mean?
BrandsFowlerandAlexander1.jpg


I did my best with MS Paint, which is pretty rough. The bottom three are my brand and the two I own with my sister: Quarter Circle J and Pony Tracks. Where do you brand a sheep, anyhow? The jaw?

Hands that have worn one of my knives in the pouch sheath soon become believers. Do not take this to mean my package is the best, others also make practical packages. I want my knife on my belt in the exact position I dictate for it, I always know exactly where it is, can get it out and put it back with one hand. If I am going way out, there is a revolver in a shoulder holster with me, knife on my belt.

If I am riding one of my horses they will stay with me, horses out of other strings you can never tell. There is no sensation more interesting than laying on your back listening to a horse leaving you as fast as he can. Years ago I got real busted up and can still her the sound of hooves pounding the dirt.

I've always wanted one of your knives, but so far my lack of budget has kept me from it. One day, though...
I think I mentioned that I do most of my work afoot or from a truck, but I do remember the sound of my horse heading for home at a dead run. That's a long, disgusted walk.

From what I read you understand what I mean.

Thank you, sir. That's high praise.

James
 
The rocker goes on the bottom and convex side down, the spear has a arrow (v) on the right end.

While you can do lot with an atv, still I well remember when my son got his first dirt bike, figured horses were a thing of the past. He sure was aggravated when a cow he was herding and crowding her tight tried to jump over his new cycle and got her hind foot caught in the spokes of the front wheel. Horses were standing by the tack shed waiting to do their job I swear they were laughing at him.

He saddled his horse, put a loop on that cow and drug her to the corral on her back through mud and snow showing her no mercy. Spent the next couple of weeks trying to lace the spokes back on the bent rim. Finally spent his next months wages on a new wheel.

Lot easier to shoe a horse!

That is OK, good times remembered.
 
Or carry a fixed blade like a scandinavian puuko style, where the sheath is notstrapped on a belt in a rigid position. I would think that a free swinging puuko sheath would slide out of the way in a fall or other mishap, yet can be drawn with one hand. The utility puuko by I. Jarvenpaa comes to mind. It has the belt loop mounted on a brass D ring, and swings loose.

Very good point:thumbup:
The puukko has been used in extreme arctic conditions over the centuries for herding reindeer. The puukko pouch sheath is extremely practical,holds the knife really securely (try up ending most sheath knives and shaking them:eek:)and yet it doesn't interfere with movement or represent significant danger to the wearer.Sitting down for a rest or to drive a car whilst wearing one is no problem at all, most conventional sheath knives give you a painful dig in the ribs.
 
The rocker goes on the bottom and convex side down, the spear has a arrow (v) on the right end.

Brand reading is an art, that's for sure, particularly when it comes to the rocking/rocker figure. For whatever reason, it's not too popular around here. There are a few Bars and Slashes, but most of the brands that have been in use for a long time are simple combinations of letters and numbers.
Anyhow, I did a little more drawing, and this is what I came up with:
BrandsFowler1.jpg


And I'd still love to know where you brand a sheep.

While you can do lot with an atv, still I well remember when my son got his first dirt bike, figured horses were a thing of the past. He sure was aggravated when a cow he was herding and crowding her tight tried to jump over his new cycle and got her hind foot caught in the spokes of the front wheel. Horses were standing by the tack shed waiting to do their job I swear they were laughing at him.

My grandfather got me a 3-wheeler when I was 9, and I promptly tried to push cows down to the house on it. I didn't quite run them through a fence, but it was mighty close.

And to bring it back around to knives... I've always admired the gaucho-style blades. I think it would take me a while to get used to carrying one behind my back, though.

James
 
jackknife, I'll stick with my horses. Try carrying enough fuel for a two week stay with your Polaris or other ATV, unless you have a support truck along with you (yikes!):eek:. And at least I can hear what's going on around me while riding on my horse.:D As to the French...well, they do a lot of very weird things in their lovely country:confused: (yes, I've been there quite a few times). Unless it has a very secure and strong sheath, I wouldn't carry a sheath knife on my belt while riding. Just my personal opinion, others' experiences may differ from mine.

Regards,
Ron
 
jackknife, I'll stick with my horses. Try carrying enough fuel for a two week stay with your Polaris or other ATV, unless you have a support truck along with you (yikes!):eek:. And at least I can hear what's going on around me while riding on my horse.:D As to the French...well, they do a lot of very weird things in their lovely country:confused: (yes, I've been there quite a few times). Unless it has a very secure and strong sheath, I wouldn't carry a sheath knife on my belt while riding. Just my personal opinion, others' experiences may differ from mine.

Regards,
Ron


Ron, I do have to confess that my experiance with horses is far and few between, none of witch left an endearing feeling for them. I must not have the constitution to trust my fate to a possable contankerous animal, who may take strange notions into its mind at any one time. with me aboard.

I think if I were to find myself a hundred years before I was born, I would not stray far from the water. River boat, keel boat, flat boat or even canoe. The one time I found myself living in Colorado, I got claustrophobic being far from the ocean or other body of water. My temperment is more likely to lend itself to being a canoe voyager than explorer by horseback. :)
 
Unless it has a very secure and strong sheath, I wouldn't carry a sheath knife on my belt while riding. Just my personal opinion, others' experiences may differ from mine.

Regards,
Ron

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaucho

they are from south america, can probably outride most and have had the same knives on their belt for a good long time...if it has worked for them that long I dont see why it wouldnt still now.
 
Robert, I've spent some time in South America, and I know about the gauchos (and others who work Los Llanos), and their knives. Most I have seen have metal sheaths, metal-tipped and throated sheaths, or sheaths lined with wood...for a good reason. A very pointy blade can do dastardly things to your hide if you happen to get knocked off or bucked off for some reason, and it comes out of the sheath. And, as I clearly stated, what I wrote was from my experience, others' experience may differ. Just because South American horseman wear their sheath knives while riding, doesn't mean I have to do the same.

Regards,
Ron
 
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