SOG Revolver Survival Knife?

[knifetester]

However the quality of heat treat is very low and inconsistent on cheap hatchets. They are often softer than a machete, easily filed. Much to soft to hold the thin edge required to out perform a good 10" knife and have any level of duarbility at all.

As well, consider the time involved. Given the hours involved in fine tuning a cheap hatchet (you would have to re-heat treat, regrind and likely rehandle) while hoping for no cracks or flaws in the steel. You are probably better of just buying a better quality tool to begin with.

Also, it would be helpful if you would clarify what the scope of work you are claming a cheap, but sharpened, hatchet will outperform a good 10" class blade at.

I do own some cheap axes and hatchets, Estwing, Collins and such, bought at garage sales and flea markets. I use them as beater tools, breaking up ice, chopping through roots in rocky soil, removing shrubs and the like.

What specific large knives have you used that would not outperform a cheap hatchet? Which cheap hatchet are you talking about? How was it sharpened? What condition was the knife in, i.e. was it terribly dull?

In my hands it takes a really well blanaced, well sharpened, high quality hatchet to out chop a good 10" class knife, and even then then you are only talking about one area of performance. I understand your perspective and experience might be different due to skill level, strength, physical ability (I have carpal tunnel syndrome) style of use, the area and woods you work with, etc.

Again, I like axes and hatchets, but they are a very specific use tool that is optimized for chopping (some split well too, depends on the head design, very cheek specific). Try using a big knife int he woods on your next outing, you might like it.

There are of course other reasons to carry a hatchet, desptie its limited scope of work, rather than a big blade. Legality being a huge factor. I keep an axe in my car, and carry a small hatchet hiking (GB Mini) simply because it would not be legal for me to carry a big knife in those situations. When I am camping on private land, I likely have a big knife with me.

 

[Robbie Roberson]

Knifetester, thanks for the kind words.

I think you pretty well summed up this whole interesting thread with the following.........

"There have been so many disccusions about knives vs axes, by really experienced people, yet their is never a resloution becuase much of it is subjective, persoanl preference relating to style of use, tasks being performed, physical abilities and limitations and simply what people are used to."

All the tools you mentioned above are great outdoor tools, they all have a place in outdoor activities. The most important point I try to make about the Revolver is the fact that it is as good as any folding or straight saw in the world with a 5 inch blade IMO.

The really handy thing about it is the fact that it also has a hidden cutting blade hidden within the handle. You never know it's there unless you rotate to it. It acts and looks just like a 5 inch fixed blade saw. Many deer hunters across the U.S. and other countries are realizing that the saw can be left locked in position (for safety and convenience, sheathed) while climbing to tree stands and quickly clearing limbs as they climb.

The Revolver is by far the handiest tool I have ever used in the woods because it is so versatile, and it only weighs about 8 ounces with sheath. I can assemble a complete camp site with it, including cutting trees down for firewood. I think is pretty good for a 5 inch knife.

But to go back to the original question in this thread by Frank k..... "Revolver for survival" ?

This ask another question, what is a survival tool ? My definition of a survival tool would be a tool or tools that someone uses for almost any amount of time, (could be indoors or out), to help this person sustain life. This is a very broad subject, and obviously it too is very subjective.

Robbie Roberson

 

[JD Mandrell]

Knifetester, thanks for the kind words.

I think you pretty well summed up this whole interesting thread with the following.........

"There have been so many disccusions about knives vs axes, by really experienced people, yet their is never a resloution becuase much of it is subjective, persoanl preference relating to style of use, tasks being performed, physical abilities and limitations and simply what people are used to."

Yeah I agree, we have about beat this horse into the dirt, so I'm gonna behave. I'll keep my hatchet, you'll keep your knives ands let's go tear up the woods.

I still wanna try the Revolver though!

 

[Gossman Knives]

I still wanna try the Revolver though!

You should get one. I got one of the hunter models and now it is a permanent part of my hunting gear that rides in my fanny pack.
Scott

 

[knifetester]

Robbie,

First, let me thank you for your participation on the forums. Being able to communicate really helps in giving an insight into the development process of knives as well as the knife industry.

I hope you don't mind if I ask you a few questions. I am not trying to put you on the spot, or trying to start any arguments, I just have some questions about your design. If you don't want to answer for time, convience or legal reasons I understand.

The most important point I try to make about the Revolver is the fact that it is as good as any folding or straight saw in the world with a 5 inch blade IMO.

How many 5" saws are there and how many have you and SOG tested the Revolver against? In what areas was the Revolver saw superior? Where di it fall behind?

How does the edge retention of the Revolver (AUS steel at 56-57, right?) compare to the impulse hardened teeth which are much harder? Is their a kerf to the blade (thinning at the top to avoid binding)? What is the set of the teeth?

Is the blade steel selected an optimal choice for the knife, saw , both or neither? How did you select the materials to be used?

What factors led you to select the TPI? Is the saw designed for soft, green woods, or hard woods? Can it be resharpened?

The really handy thing about it is the fact that it also has a hidden cutting blade hidden within the handle. You never know it's there unless you rotate to it. It acts and looks just like a 5 inch fixed blade saw.

From your statements, it sounds like the Revolver is designed primarily as a saw, with the addition of a knife for light to medium use, i.e. standard FRN folder type uses, is that correct?

From the concerns that some have expressed, and my own feeling sfater seeing the animation on the SOG site, I think there is some concern over the safety of the design. Specifically, people that have not used or examined the Revolver are concerned that that if their is lock failure when the knife balde is engaged, it will cause those sharp teeth on the saw to be driven into the palm of the hand. Based on that concern expressed by potential customers, are you planning on examing the lock failure modes and limits with SOG?

I know you wrote that the lock has never failed, however like all blade locks there is a possibility of failure. Given the nature of activities these knives are being marketed for, i.e. survival and military, etc, would you be willing to test your products to determine when and how the lock can fail, and advise your customer of this?

Would you consider making a custom version of the knife, with ultra secure and redundant locks (at least two systems) made from more optimized materials? I think L6 steel would be the best choice for this design froma functionality standpoint, I understand that from a comercial standpoint Stainless like AUS is safe choice.

Again, thank you for your participation and I hope you will answer my questions.

 

[JD Mandrell]

You should get one. I got one of the hunter models and now it is a permanent part of my hunting gear that rides in my fanny pack.

Scott

From what I've seen on your site, I wouldn't mind trying one of yours someday if I can scramble enough money together!

I like your straight forward "simple" (that's not to be taken as an insult) working knife designs.

P.S. I'm gonna e-mail you on the side about your sheaths.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Cliff, maybe it's just the shock of seeing all the blades broken that seems to magnify the impact.

Yes, a lot of people are so misinformed because they let their personal bias influence their perception.

If use limits were specified on most everything manufactured in the world ...

Sorry, that is a poor arguement. What about the knife manufacturers like Busse and Spyderco which will tell you about the performance abilities of their knives, Spyderco releases the lock rating break points, Catra work, Busse does flex tests, high impact work, lots of custom makers will tell you the same. Yes lots of people don't, lots of people do.

Common sense should tell me not to try to cut a steel beam with the Revolvers wood/bone saw ...

Nice exaggeration, back to reality we were noting how it could be used as a brush tool, what are its limits in that regard. No need to break out the I-beams.

I have never had a meter with me when I have been using my Revolvers in the woods.

Again, meaninless exaggeration. Can you baton it as heavily as you would if it was a fixed blade of the same length. Is it weaker or stronger than various locking mechanisms. Can you baton it through knotty wood which you can't split effectively with a hatchet. If you want to get more quantitative then you can, but you can be very informative just by being precise about what you have done.

What doesn't help are vague statements like :

"Yes I have loaded it (many times) with everything I can muster (is that a word ?) , I weigh 290 pounds and 6ft. 4inch."

Because that implies near indestructability but in reality actually tells you little. I know I could give the Revolver to my brother and it would not take all he could muster and he is only ~200 lbs, and yes I would have him just restrict it to wood work. His methods however are just fairly direct.

Now if I made such a vague statement in the opposite "Well my brother broke a Revolver trivially just on wood work." how would you react? I would not do this by the way because I know that it is misinformative because people would get the wrong opinion. What my brother does trivially would be extreme for most.

The scope of work must be great, because I give out before my Revolver will.

I could say the same about a cheap fantasy knife from Gil Hibben. I have broken them so I know how far to push them before they break. Even cheap steels will cut on woods for a *very* long time. All this means is that you didn't push it pasts its limits. I can fish all day with really light strength fishing line, this doesn't mean it has a wide scope of work, I just know how not to break it.

Basically, once good saws, usually two man units, came into play the use of the felling axe declined significantly.

Axes were no longer used for bucking, but they were still used for felling until replaced by chainsaws. The hand saws were used to make the horizontal cuts, but axes were still used to make the relief notches.

A few years back I tried both methods on moderate sized woods, 6-12" fir and spruce with the occasional birch. On the soft woods, just using the axe was more efficient because of the time change and the wood cuts easy. However on large black spruce you will appreciate being able to use a saw.

Of course anyone thinking that you need a 500 lbs stick to make a camp fire is living in mall ninja land. Drop on by and show me how you cut down that stick and move it when wet. Even after I let them dry all summer they are not trivial to move in the fall. Even a six inch piece of black spruce is hell to carry and it won't burn as much as just smoulder and it is just fantasy to use it for construction outside of building a cabin.

Back to reality, even after saws came into play axes were also still used for limbing and root cutting, of course the limbs and roots cut on such trees were larger than any tree you would cut for shelter or a fire.

I like saws for working in heavy ingrowth. They work well for shelter construction on some of the harder woods because cutting the limbs on a standing tree is difficult with a blade / axe but trivial with a saw. For everything else, bucking, felling, limbing, carving, shaping, I would rather have a hatchet/blade unless as noted the wood is *really* big.

They also work well when cutting down small trees, 1-2", so you can clear some room to use the axe and not risk using a long blade and smashing it into a covered in rock. Saws are also especially handly in rocky soil where the tree isn't rooted strong enough to take the impact from a blade or axe and it will just move and absorb the impact.

Saws are however less dangerous in unskilled hands. I always carry one because you can give it to near anyone with just a moments instruction and they can readily buck wood to length, trim a few large branches etc., I would not so causally give a novice a large golok and send him out whacking.

There are many quality axe makers, see Lee Reeve for an example of a nice custom hatchet that will outperform similiar sized GB hatchets ..

GB makes softwood head patterns, they work well on pine and other clear woods, but you would want a deeper hollow relief for hardwoods. They should offer at least two head configurations. The wood over there must all be fairly soft.

There have been so many disccusions about knives vs axes, by really experienced people, yet their is never a resloution becuase much of it is subjective, persoanl preference relating to style of use, tasks being performed, physical abilities and limitations and simply what people are used to.

Usually the biggest disparity is experience with tools. Ask which axes or blades are being compared to like in this thread and the reason for the difference in opinion tends to stand out. All of what you noted has effects as well, but people with a wide experience in tools tend to recogonize the values in all of them and not make such sweeping statements like any cheap hatchet will outchop any blade.

And you are again ignoring the fact that I also said "properly sharpened"...yes the edge on a low end hatchet sucks, but put a better edge on it and you raise the performance level.

You can sharpen it all you want and the performance only raises slightly, a small percentage. Now if you want to regrind it with an angle grinder, hollow out the relief, thin out the edge, sure, you can make a decent hatchet out of it, but then it obviously is no longer a cheap hardware store hatchet now is it. You also have not touched on other issues such as knifetester noted which are head/handle security, steel quality, etc. .

The most important point I try to make about the Revolver is the fact that it is as good as any folding or straight saw in the world with a 5 inch blade IMO.

Which impulse hardened japanese style saws have you used?

-Cliff

 

[Gossman Knives]

From what I've seen on your site, I wouldn't mind trying one of yours someday if I can scramble enough money together!

I like your straight forward "simple" (that's not to be taken as an insult) working knife designs.

P.S. I'm gonna e-mail you on the side about your sheaths.

Thank you. I aim to please. If you've got something in mind, just let me know. Sorry for the OT.
Scott

 

[Robbie Roberson]

Knifetester, some questions I can not answer because I don't work for SOG, the questions I answered below is the best I can do. SOG is in complete charge of the Revolver, so if these questions are not complete enough, then you might want to drop them a line and ask them the questions I could not answer. Sorry it took so long to get back to you, I have been with my grandson all day........

Question......How many 5" saws are there and how many have you and SOG tested the Revolver against? In what areas was the Revolver saw superior? Where di it fall behind?

My answer....... (your quote of what I said) is based on my opinion, as I said at the end of my sentence you quoted, "IMO".

Question.......How does the edge retention of the Revolver (AUS steel at 56-57, right?) compare to the impulse hardened teeth which are much harder? Is their a kerf to the blade (thinning at the top to avoid binding)? What is the set of the teeth?

Answer........Don't know, never had it bind. I just told SOG I wanted a high quality combo wood/bone saw, they delivered.

Question.......Is the blade steel selected an optimal choice for the knife, saw , both or neither? How did you select the materials to be used?

Answer..........I think it's the perfect steel for the knife/saw combination. SOG chose AUS-8.

Question.......What factors led you to select the TPI? Is the saw designed for soft, green woods, or hard woods? Can it be resharpened?

Answer..........The saw is based on quality pruning saws TPI, it will cut them all well, I think SOG might be able to sharpen, not sure on this though, I have never needed to sharpen mine in two years of use.

Question..........From your statements, it sounds like the Revolver is designed primarily as a saw, with the addition of a knife for light to medium use, i.e. standard FRN folder type uses, is that correct?

Answer........... I focused most of my comments on the Revolvers saw during this thread. But I think of it as a quality knife first, then a back-up survival saw. Theres nothing standard about this knife, and it does not fold, I think it is much better than FRN folders, mainly because it has a blade, and does not fold.

Question............Would you consider making a custom version of the knife, with ultra secure and redundant locks (at least two systems) made from more optimized materials? I think L6 steel would be the best choice for this design froma functionality standpoint, I understand that from a comercial standpoint Stainless like AUS is safe choice.

Answer...........No, I like the Revolver just as it is, and SOG does too. Why try to improve on an already great working design. But you never know what SOG might do in the future, they are costantly updating and improving on their designs.

Knifetester, there were a couple or three questions I can not answer simply because I don't know the answers. Sorry if this is not enough, but these were questions I have absolutly no authority (or right) to answer since I am not a SOG employee.

Thanks for the great thread and questions, I hope this helps people to understand a little more about the Revolver, it is a great outdoor survival tool.

Robbie Roberson

 

[Robbie Roberson]

Cliff, I'm sorry I could not answer your questions in the way that you wanted, the truth is I don't know most of the answers.

If you need to know these answers, I would advise you to contact someone at SOG knives and ask them, there will certainly be someone there that is much more qualified than me to answer the questions you need to know.




Robbie Roberson