SOG with Talon hole

[Grandsuave]

It puts the lotion on its skin...

 

[stropper]

Actually, most of us dont really care one way or the other as long as Jerry continues to make knives.

Don't get me wrong here, I am a Busse fan too.
(Yes, I CAN say that: I own ONE whole Busse )
I just like those Kiku grinds too.

Anyway, it seems that I'm not the only one who's curious about the SOG-thing and the details of the talon hole trademark.

 

[stropper]

Jerry said all is well with SOG, that is all that we need to know and most likely it is all you will ever know.

Wow,.... Is he like that guy who moves in mysterious ways?

So, we're reporting all these talon-hole sightings, but the details of what a talon hole exactly is, (according to it's trademark) are a secret?

 

[Eric Isaacson]

Wow,.... Is he like that guy who moves in mysterious ways?

So, we're reporting all these talon-hole sightings, but the details of what a talon hole exactly is, (according to it's trademark) are a secret?

Are you asking "What is a talon hole ? "

If this is your question the answer isn't a secret.

However, it appears from your earlier posts that you are asking "What is the agreement between SOG and Jerry Busse?" This is the question I answered above. If this is your question it is really none of our concern what agreement they have come to. Jerry was made aware of a possible infringement on his trademark, the trademark is Jerry's property, and if he did or didn't come to an agreement with SOG it is his business.

I would guess that "all is well" with SOG and Busse Combat especially since Jerry said it was.

 

[Webscrounger]

How can you patent a hole? Wouldn't it have to be exactly the same size, in exactly the same location of a handle the same shape and size? :jerkit:

 

[mfaster7]

WHatever the deal is Kiku makes some awesome knives. His grinds are some of the best and his designs are cool. As to talon holes someone said that if you look many many knives have them or some similar configuration. After Busse Matsudas knives are high on my list of desirables. I have seen them at tadgear and on this site called Japan Knives direct. Not Busses but very nice blades. Anyway it is not the hole that counts. It is what surrounds it

 

[Hogwash]

How can you patent a hole? Wouldn't it have to be exactly the same size, in exactly the same location of a handle the same shape and size? :jerkit:

It's not patented, it's a trademark.

It's like slapping a Mercedes hood ornament on a Suzuki Forenza.

An idiot might do it, but if Suzuki started doing it, Mercedes would sue.

 

[Webscrounger]

OK. Call me stupid. INFI may be a trademark, but to me, a hole is a hole.

 

[leatherman]

How can you patent a hole? Wouldn't it have to be exactly the same size, in exactly the same location of a handle the same shape and size? :jerkit:

Just when you thought it was safe to surf again, theres that nasty emoticon again, that thing makes me ill. :barf:

Trademarks are a very complicated thing, you'd be amazed at what companies will trademark, Harley has a trademark on the sound of the engine for crying out loud! Quizno's trademarked a Q! Spyderco trademarked a hole too, you disparage that one too? Benchmade trademarked a frikking butterfly,and an oval, and a serration pattern, as did Spyderco and Cold Steel. on and on and on, ad infinitum.

 

[stropper]

It's like slapping a Mercedes hood ornament on a Suzuki Forenza.

I'm not sure this analogy is correct.
The Mercedes logo was designed by Mercedes itself.
They didn't claim a quite common design feature as their own trademark.
(like a mudguard or winscreenwhipers)

I did a rearch and the talon hole gets compared to the Nike Swoosh too.
I hope you can tell there's a big difference.
Nike would'nt even consider trademarking something like velcro shoelaces because it just isn't their own original idea.

If I didn't surf this forum, a hole or two in an integral guard on any knife would still make me think "Greco".
(Maybe I am just old? :grumpy

 

[leatherman]

For those that just dont get it on the rights and reasons behind a trademark, heres a great site of Q&A

http://www.uspto.gov/go/tac/doc/basic/

btw, Harley Davidson once sued one of the small bike makers over the sound, and put a cease and desist order on a restaurant for having Hog in its name.

Simply calling it a hole is oversimplifying it, way oversimplifying it. Trademarking a hole in a knife is not possible, it has to be a design feature. Spyder's hole is in the blade, and assists in opening the knife, Bench's oval is the same basic thing, Busse's talon hole is an attatchment point for a hand guard as well as being a very recognisable feature of the knife.

 

[resinguy]

(Surely the Busse people read every single post on their own forum?)

Actually, I doubt that it true. Jerry and crew are busy running a business; and while they drop in occasionally to enliven our day, I don't think they hang on every word here.

 

[Hogwash]

How do people identify a sterile Busse?

Answer: They look for a talon hole.

A hole in that particular location is not a common feature of a knife, it's a feature Jerry Busse designed himself and trade marked.

A hood ornament was at one time a device designed to let the driver know if his radiator was boiling over. Now it just identifies the brand of the car. A talon hole on a game warden is pretty useless, it is no longer a point to attach a D-guard, it's just a means to identify it as a Busse. What does this mean? They both serve the same purpose and should be treated the same way under trade mark law.

A hood ornament is more difficult to make than laser cutting a hole, that is probably why you are confused. Jerry was pretty smart to make his trade mark easy to manufacture, it keeps costs down.

 

[stropper]

Thank you all for taking the time to comment.

A little birdie (thanks man :thumbup could even answer my initial question:

The (possible) production version of the Kiku WILL probably have the hole and this shouldn't be a problem at all.

I'm no lawyer, but apparently one of those guys would have no trouble using the lack of "proof of distinctiveness" to make the thing invalid?
He says you can't have "distinctiveness" if dozens of people have been using your "trademark" decades before you did.
Turns out many trademarks become invalid this way.

 

[Jerry Busse]

Stropper,

Thanks for your interest. We do not normally go into detailed discussions of legal issues on our forums. I don't really know of too many manufacturers who do.

Let's Drink!!!

Jerry

 

[randucci]

Hey, I'm drinking already!!!!!

 

[leatherman]

A talon hole on a game warden is pretty useless, it is no longer a point to attach a D-guard,

Its not? Uh oh, I better go do some dis assembling!!! You know better than I Gungadin.

 

[Hogwash]

Ok, usless was a little harsh but I'm not brave enough to try the boomerang:

 

[ashtxsniper]

SOG is . . . . . .

So is your post. That amazes me that so many people can get angered because SOG is drilling a hole in their knives. It doesn't even look like a Busse talon hole.

 

[leatherman]

Ok, usless was a little harsh but I'm not brave enough to try the boomerang:

Now THATS a lot of lanyards on one knife!




















sweet :thumbup: