Soldering Critique

[SpookStrickland]

Looks awesome to me but I don't think anyone is really going to feel good about buying something that you say is second class work. Probably should have never said anything at all because now everyone will wonder??? did he give it his best or not.

 

[Darrin Sanders]

If I were looking at that knife as a potential customer, the solder joint would not be cause for alarm. The way I see it, its about right for that style of knife.

 

[Sam Wilson]

Ken and Darrin, thank you. I was looking for honest feedback, not attaboys. I respect your opinions, and I appreciate it. As mentioned, I will keep trying to improve the quality in all aspects of my work. I have seen a wide degree of variation in silver soldering of different makers, whether relatively unknown, or rather famous, and that is why I wanted to know what a pro should shoot for.

SpookStrickland, to be fair, I never said it was "second class" work. What I said was:

I'm curious to know what level of finish is considered "good to go" on a soldered guard. This is how, in general, I finish mine. I can finish it finer, but I also have to balance that with cost/time spent, and the intended purpose of the knife, which in this case is a field/survival type knife. So let me have it. Does it need to be cleaned up more, have I spent too much time already, looks like crap, whatever. Hit me.

Frank used the term "second class."

I think that is a very well done connection. If you say it is not your best(?) I would have to ask why do second class when you are able to do first. You work quality is perhaps the first thing to help sell your knives if that's what you want to do. I do my best always. If something shows bad, I've either missed it or could not do better which really hurts. Frank

Thank you, Frank. I appreciate your opinion. The way I look at it when it comes to selling knives that I make, is I want to provide a product with a level of fit/finish and performance commensurate with the price. Obviously, I do my best to make a quality knife. When price becomes a constraint, though, I try to focus the maximum amount of effort on the functional side, and then do what's appropriate on the aesthetic side.

If I'm selling a little utility knife for $75, I don't think it's reasonable to have a premium steel, exotic handle material, and maximum level of fit/finish for that price. I won't stay in business. I wouldn't say this was a second class soldering job for me, just because I can do a little better. I looked at it as doing the best I could do for the price point/intended purpose of the knife. This knife was designed to be used in the field, and beat on, not a safe queen.

Maybe my thoughts are skewed, and that's why I'm asking in here, but that's the way I looked at it. Providing the appropriate level of F&F for the price/use of the knife. Again, I'm rather new to this, so that's why I want to hear from more experienced folks. I thank you for you comment, and please feel free to respond/continue.

Sam :thumbup:

I think most people understand that the closer you get to perfection, the more the price goes up, on anything. I never said I don't do my best, just the opposite. I'm sure just about every craftsman that ever lived could improve on their work in some small way, if they had unlimited time to spend on the whole project. I also doubt they would stay in business for very long if they did that.

And if a customer wants that level of perfection at that price point, or intended use of the knife, I probably won't be able to satisfy them anyway.

Sam :thumbup:

 

[UffDa]

I'm no solder expert but it seems excessive to me. I would rather not see a bead. It sure looks strong.

Some people like the solder showing and some don't. Personally, I like it.

I silver brazed front sights for 15 years. I cleaned off excess hard solder by heating it just until it began to soften a whisked it away with a small wire brush.
On the rare occasion that i used soft solder, I heated the joint and wiped the solder away with a damp cloth. I'm not sure that either method would work well
on finer work like your knife.

 

[Sam Wilson]

That's a good point that's worth considering, for me anyway. I approach this from the point of view that I like to see the solder. To me, that thin, shiny line at the joint is attractive. I'm sure others feel differently, however. Good post.

 

[M forge]

FWIW I am no expert and not as experienced as most or maybe all the other posters. However I think it is a nice clean solder job and looks good for that type and use of knife. To me it gives it a heavy duty look. Could it be smaller, probably so, but again for the price and use you describe I think it is just fine or better.

I also think soldering is the right way to do it and wish I could currently do one that good. For now I have switched to JB Weld.

 

[Bo T]

If it is consistent around the guard then the solder joint is consistent with the overall look of the knife. I believe you did a good job. I like the look. Without the solder it would look a little like a sink without calking.

 

[Frank Niro]

I have always believed the best way to get a better price is as you said Sam to make a better product. Often the maker has to decide if it's better than what he has done before. I see your knife as being a fine piece of work even though the tube handles never made sense to me but then the knives I make today might have made me wonder just what? Perhaps your market prices will handle a bump up? Just could be. Frank

 

[Sam Wilson]

M forge and Bo T, thank you very much. As stated above, I like the presence of the solder, myself. I have to remember that not all customers are going to want it, no matter how fine it is. Either way, thanks for the compliments, I do apprecitate them. Getting feedback can be brutal .

Frank, thank you again for the kind words. I have always valued your input in various threads and discussions here in the forum. I also want to make clear that when I quoted you above in the comment to SpookStrickland, I certainly didn't mean anything in a negative way. I was just quoting for context. Regarding pricing, I must confess, it is a challenging issue for me. I will have to continue to think about that, as well as examine how my progress goes as a maker going forward. Either way, thank you again for taking the time to comment.

PS.: Don't feel bad, the tube handles don't make much sense to the majority of normal people, either .
Thank you,

Sam :thumbup:

 

[lastbrunneng]

I find the bead on that knife attractive. As long as it's really confined in a straight line and isn't splotchy I think that's a perfectly acceptable finish.

 

[SpookStrickland]

You've got amazing skills, I could not hope to do what you do in a million years but my feeling on the matter is, if it's not your best is second rate. I don't say this to irritate you or to pick on you. I say it to inspire you to be and do the best you can all the time and you will reap the rewards for it.

 

[Matthew Gregory]

You've got amazing skills, I could not hope to do what you do in a million years but my feeling on the matter is, if it's not your best is second rate. I don't say this to irritate you or to pick on you. I say it to inspire you to be and do the best you can all the time and you will reap the rewards for it.

Spook, he responded to your previous post. It ISN'T second rate work - it's merely a different method. He's asking if you prefer it with a pronounced bead, or not.

 

[Shao]

I think you did a fine job. Better than I could do.

 

[tryppyr]

Personally, I think the more invisible soldering can be made the better it is. If it looks like an integral when the work is done, it's dead on perfect.

 

[Sam Wilson]

Thank you guys for the compliments, and for taking the time to express your opinions on the matter. I didn't realize preferences on silver soldering were so varied. I now have some food for thought on how I finish them. And Spook, I didn't take it as you picking on me, don't worry. My skills aren't that great, believe me. If I did it, anyone can. But I may have put this all poorly in words.

Matthew kind of hit the nail on the head. I was basically more curious about what size bead is considered the standard. If you look at Randall's, they typically run a larger bead, which I like the look of. I feel it gives the knife a more robust appearance. Other makers run a smaller, almost invisible bead. That obviously showcases some talent and skill, but for a working knife, isn't my preference. As far as the economics of it go, what I basically meant is if "X" size bead of solder is considered "Great," why spend more time and effort going beyond that, if there is no gain, either performance wise or aesthetically.

Similar to a satin finish. If a 400 grit satin finish is what you're going for, why continue to 1200, if there is no real benefit to doing so. At some point it becomes a preference, and that is what I was clumsily asking. But please continue to respond, as this is good to know. I know there are many who feel exactly as Tryppyr, and prefer the bead to be nearly invisible. That is precisely why I started the thread.

Thank you,

Sam :thumbup:

 

[SpookStrickland]

Thank you guys for the compliments, and for taking the time to express your opinions on the matter. I didn't realize preferences on silver soldering were so varied. I now have some food for thought on how I finish them. And Spook, I didn't take it as you picking on me, don't worry. My skills aren't that great, believe me. If I did it, anyone can. But I may have put this all poorly in words.

Matthew kind of hit the nail on the head. I was basically more curious about what size bead is considered the standard. If you look at Randall's, they typically run a larger bead, which I like the look of. I feel it gives the knife a more robust appearance. Other makers run a smaller, almost invisible bead. That obviously showcases some talent and skill, but for a working knife, isn't my preference. As far as the economics of it go, what I basically meant is if "X" size bead of solder is considered "Great," why spend more time and effort going beyond that, if there is no gain, either performance wise or aesthetically.

Similar to a satin finish. If a 400 grit satin finish is what you're going for, why continue to 1200, if there is no real benefit to doing so. At some point it becomes a preference, and that is what I was clumsily asking. But please continue to respond, as this is good to know. I know there are many who feel exactly as Tryppyr, and prefer the bead to be nearly invisible. That is precisely why I started the thread.

Thank you,

Sam :thumbup:

I gotcha now, sorry for the mix up. As for the bead looks good the way it is, had you not pointed it out, it would never have been an issue too me, it just looked great!

 

[rickmenefee]

I don't see how it could be better

 

[mete]

For all -- From a different perspective . I wish everyone would use the terms soft solder [~400 F] and braze [ 1000 -1300 F] .
For maximum strength and best capillary action the gap should be 0.003 ". Heat the metal then let the metal melt the solder.
Sam you're doing fine ! I would say for a fancy knife keep the bead small and for a field knife bigger bead is OK.

 

[PT Doc]

I thought we got past those kind of comments on this forum?

No, some are just so awesome and it must be pointed out I guess....

 

[Sam Wilson]

I gotcha now, sorry for the mix up. As for the bead looks good the way it is, had you not pointed it out, it would never have been an issue too me, it just looked great!

No problem at all. Communication is always tricky over the interwebs, lol. Thank you for the compliment, and the push to do a better job. :thumbup:

I don't see how it could be better

Thank you, Rick. I went to your website, very nice work.

For all -- From a different perspective . I wish everyone would use the terms soft solder [~400 F] and braze [ 1000 -1300 F] .
For maximum strength and best capillary action the gap should be 0.003 ". Heat the metal then let the metal melt the solder.
Sam you're doing fine ! I would say for a fancy knife keep the bead small and for a field knife bigger bead is OK.

I agree, mete. I frequently do both types of "soldering," and I should know better . Using the terms interchangeably usually leads to some sort of confusion. But thank you for the compliment/encouragement. I think that is the route I will take, as far as bead size for different type knives. I appreciate the help.

No, some are just so awesome and it must be pointed out I guess....

I don't quite understand this, but I'm in a good mood thanks to some Kona lager, so thank you!

Sam :thumbup: