"sole authorship" - from a collectors point of view

J

j22knife

Joined
Nov 18, 2006
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270
I don't make knives, I buy them from craftsmen that make handmade knives.

Of course, as a collector, I value a knife that is made entirely by the knifemaker - sole authorship. Unfortunately, I'm not sure exactly what that means.

Especially when it comes to the blade. Is it reasonable to expect that the knifemaker will have started with a hunk of steel (maybe some old roller bearing) and forged the blade with hammer and tongs? Or started with a strip of steel of suitable thickness and cut out the blade on a bandsaw?

What about heat treatment - if the blade is sent out for hardening, is that still "sole authorship"?

Is there a good source in information on the knifemaker's craft - so that I can better understand what goes into making a handmade knife and appreciate the differences between one knifemaker and another?

Thanks
 
Thanks for the link - I tried to register at the forum but couldn't get past the "image verification".

As a software developer I'm computer literate and know how to register at forums.

Maybe they have a problem with their site.

Any other way to get this info?

Thanks
 
I'm sorry to hear you had a problem.

Here is their "in progress working defintion" under discussion. It is a "Newbies" forum, and the project is intended as an attempt at creating a coherent lexicon that new makers can go forward with. There could be further modifications.

" Sole Authorship: All of the major components of the knife were made by a single knife maker. This includes exotic materials such as damascus and mokume but not minor components such as pins, pivots, bolts, screws, rivets, and similar items. Any embellishment such as engraving, scrimshaw, carving, etc must be done by the knife maker. All processes such as heat treat, cryo, coatings, plating, etc must be done by the knife maker. Any accessories specifiacally made for this knife must be made by the knife maker."

Hope that gives you an idea. Disclaimer: I offer no opinions of agreement or disagreement on the topic by posting this.
 
Thanks, that makes sense - I wouldn't expect the knife maker to make the pins, for example.

I'm especially interested in what the consensus is about the strarting point for the blade. I get Blade magazine and I see ads for suppliers that will provide you with some sort of "blank" from which a blade can be made. I don't know how I could tell from the finished product what the knifemaker started with.

Is it important that the knife maker begins with a hunk of metal that isn't a flat piece of steel that sort of looks like the finished blade?
 
j22knife said:
Thanks,....
Is it important that the knife maker begins with a hunk of metal that isn't a flat piece of steel that sort of looks like the finished blade?
Click to expand...

YW.

Yes, very important. I think everyone would agree that it needs to be a "raw material" without any hint of being a blade yet.
 
fitzo said:
YW.

Yes, very important. I think everyone would agree that it needs to be a "raw material" without any hint of being a blade yet.
Click to expand...

So, it sounds like you're saying that when considering a custom/handmade knifemaker, it would be appropriate to ask them detailed questions about how they go about constructing the blade.

Thanks - that helps.
 
Absolutely. Honest and forthright are generally accepted expectations, I feel.

YW. Glad it helps.

If you can figure a way to try anything different to register at knifenetwork.com and follow that thread, I believe you would find the thread informative. The first discussion had to do with devloping a definition for what consttitutes "custom".
 
One other point I must make is that my comments are from an "American-centric" point of view regarding a custom knife.

There is a strong tradition in Scandanavian countries and in Japan among others that frequently have division of labor, ie, a bladesmith makes the blade and another person handles it. Those cultures abide by their own definitions and ethic.
 
fitzo said:
One other point I must make is that my comments are from an "American-centric" point of view regarding a custom knife.
Click to expand...

I understand. I'm only buying American-made knives. Don't need the complexity of international shipping.

I sent an email to the contact page of the other forum telling them about the problem.

Thanks
 
THESE knives define SOLE (or is it soul?) authorship.

Tim Wright makes everything but the metal, the pearl for the inlays and the leather for the sheath ( mother nature makes the pearl and the leather ). He designs, cuts out, grinds, hardens, cryogenic treats with liquid nitrogen, finishes/polishes/SHARPENS the blade and handle and all its parts: screws, inlays, springs and the tool/oiler to maintain all of this. Only about $3000 for the folder and a year or so to get one if you're lucky. He is a knifemaker's knifemaker based on his orders. We could debate, since Tim is a stock removal guy and not a smith about whether that affects the utility of his product. It doesn't, take it from me, and there are people out there who would lay money on Tim's knives being as sharp as sharp can be. He is a toolmaker first then a knifemaker.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y166/synthesist/TimWrightStraightknife.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y166/synthesist/Wright_takedown02-ww.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y166/synthesist/Wright_takedown02_sheath-w.jpg

I personally have 4 of his kitchen knives that are used daily. I don't see much value in owning a $3000 safe queen for investment, not enough people know about Tim to make his knives worthwhile investments at the present time ( poor marketing unfortunately too busy making great knives for customers who find their way to him like I did ). Not that I don't appreciate them. They are hard to let go of when you get one in your hands.

This is all merely my opinion.

Syn
 
I think that the "accesories" category maybe a bit fuzzy. Particularly when you talk about sheaths. I think that a KNIFE can still be considered a sole authorship piece even if you have Kenny Rowe, Sandy Morrissey or anyone else make a sheath for you.
 
I'd agree with that Joe. I can make a sheath that's acceptable, but not really anything at all like Sandy Morrissey or Paul Long can make. I use them for my sheaths when I feel the piece is worthy of it. (Those guys are fast too!)
 
fitzo said:
YW.

Yes, very important. I think everyone would agree that it needs to be a "raw material" without any hint of being a blade yet.
Click to expand...

OK - I've done some more research and have a related question.

What if the knifemaker starts with some "tool steel bar stock" - and cuts and grinds the blade from that - is the bar stock "raw material"?

Thanks
 
Yes, that is called "stock removal" knifemaking as opposed to the hammer/anvil "forging" knifemaking. It is considered an appropriate starting material.
 
I would guess that a significant majority of the time guys who forge will start with flat bar stock. It is easy to find and you don't NEED a press or power hammer like you arguably do if you are forging out big round bar stock or bearings. One of the advantages that a smith has is that they don't really do the precision grinding on a blade until after they have forged it to shape, so there is not need to spend the extra sheckels for precision ground bar stock. Guys like Ed Caffrey will surface grind their damascus billets for their stock remover customers, but that is not absolutely necessary if you are going to forge to shape.
 
It works for me, Ray. I'm a stock removal knifemaker who does some forging and makes some damascus. I take substantial offense with anyone that suggests stock removal isn't "real" knifemaking. :)
 
I forge and do stock removal. I have to currently send the few stainless I do out for heat treat and for that reason I don't consider my stainless blades strictly sole authorship. Me personaly I agree with fitzo's link about the maker doing all the major work from raw materials. That doesn't include to me laser cut blanks or anything like that. I figure raw bar stock, precision ground or mill scaled, round or square bar or what ever as long as the maker is the one shaping it. On folders I don't realy feel that buying generic screws that I have to shorten for the aplication takes away from the knife, nor do I feel buying several feet of pin stock takes anything away. I do feel that the sheath is part of the package.

Just my opinion, and you know what opinions are like.
 
fitzo said:
Yes, that is called "stock removal" knifemaking as opposed to the hammer/anvil "forging" knifemaking.
Click to expand...

I've seen those terms discussed - the differences are clearer now. Thanks.

This stuff is real interesting. Maybe there's an introductory class for knifemaking in my neighbirhood - that would be fun to take, and informative.
 
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