Recommendation? Solid all-around Hunter prototype - Critique wanted

[Brock Cutlery]

I've been making Japanese style kitchen cutlery now for about 3 years, and am finally excited to be working on this unconventional hunter prototype. It's been in the works for a couple of months now and I want to put it out there for thoughts and critique.
The idea behind this, and comes after several years spent focusing on kitchen cutlery, is to create a great all around Hunter/Skinner/Fillet (think deba on the latter). My thought is that a fish and game knife IS a variant of kitchen cutlery.
This isn't the knife to hack through bricks or logs. It is not meant as a survival or tactical pursuit.

The one below is the very first of the group of prototypes I am working up. I have about 8 of these heat treated, with some profile variance in design. Less arc in the spine and what not.

Anyway, I would love to hear from the experienced knife maker and / or hunter what you think of the design and how it might or might not be effective in my goals of a solid all around working knife for field and stream.
I'll say up front that this is a real prototype and not a finished knife per se. Yes, the thong hole needs a tube. I'll get that, etc. This is the second handle on this one so far, and likely not the last.
Design for intended use critique is what I am hoping to hear. I know there are a lot of little cosmetic tweaks that need making.

It is 3.9 mm above the heel, tapering. It is a hollow on a full flat grind. hollow both sides.
Might look like a saber grind at the edge but can have a secondary bevel, which is how this one will be finished. Variations might be a true single bevel / ura, which would be primarily a deba style fillet.

I look forward to your thoughts. My skin is fairly thick, so go for it.
Mark

 

[Tyshoots]

Very cool knife. Honestly I would not use to dress game animals. The blade and handle need to be user friendly no matter how you're holding it. With that design edge down is about the only way it will be comfortable.

 

[A.McPherson]

What he said... Also it’s too pointy and not enough belly to be a really good skinner. At least in my opinion.

 

[Josh Rider]

I agree with the belly comment above. My best feedback came from asking local hunters to help me design a knife for processing in the field. What was more helpful than anything was actually putting a blade in their hand and getting their opinions.
I’ll email you a pic of what they came back with. It looks close to what you have, but with more belly and smaller.

 

[J. Doyle]

I agree with the others. As an avid lifelong hunter and outdoorsman, I would never consider that knife as a hunter/game/general field knife.

That blade has too much height, IMO, for a field knife. And further, I can't get around having such a tall blade but less than 20% of that height is primary bevel. Seems like a lot of wasted space/unnecessary extra mass.

There's a reason that decades of hunting/field knives largely fall into a relatively narrow window WRT length/height/shape with only minor variations. "If it ain't broke......."

Those types of blades I'm referencing are popular and sell well for a reason.....many, MANY experienced hunters and outdoorsmen, through decades of actual field experience, have learned what works best.

Honestly, I see this as a 'solution' to a problem that doesn't exist.

Sorry.....probably not what you wanted to hear, but you did ask.

The lines look nice and clean and the finishes appear nice.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

First, that is a very nice knife. The problem is it is a small deba, not really a hunter/skinner.
Make the blade almost half the width, and raise the tip a bit to give some belly would be the first step. The handle will need to straighten a bit after that to match. I have no problem with the edge grind, but most folks like a double bevel..

I make a knife almost identical to yours in tamahagane that I sell as a Japanese hunter. Some guys like it, but most don't. As in yours, it looks like a small deba converter into a hunter.

 

[Horsewright]

Sent ya a pm Marc.

 

[Grayzer86]

I agree with the rest here. The handle angle may be better if it was straightened up a bit. For hunting or processing game, the majority of people will want more belly, a narrower blade, and a taller grind. It’s a very nice knife, It’s just not something I would consider to be an outdoor or hunting knife, and not something well suited to those tasks.

 

[jdm61]

I would be more inclined to use something approaching a full height grind. Bob Loveless arguably kind of nailed the perfect shape for a general hunting knife. Its up to you to decide what type of grind works best for your purposes.

 

[Brock Cutlery]

I really appreciate all the great feedback gents. It is very helpful. Thank you very much for taking a few minutes to post.
I guess when you are striking down a new road you have to learn to navigate the corners and avoid the potholes.

The handle arc is pretty serious, and that does prevent it from use in all but a fairly straightforward grip. To some extent I'm really ok with that, but I do have some blades profiled where I straightened the handle out some. I'll be able to test both and see which one I really like when the rubber meets the road.

It isn't made to be a skinner, which I guess is apparent. But it should do an adequate job of skinning. Any knife that attempts to do several tasks well enough probably isn't going to excel at any one of them, right?
Think of a Yanagiba and a Usuba. The just won't trade tasks very well at all.

I like this knife in my hand.
I've dressed my share of deer, rabbits etc. and cleaned hundreds of fish of all sizes, so I do have a bit of practical field knife experience.
When I go to Bass Pro or anywhere really, I rarely see a hunting knife that I think I really want or need to have. They rarely speak to me.
That said, there are knives from various makers that make me double-take. There are some good designs in the custom community to be sure.


These are my primary influences in this design. All well accepted and traditional. I've just re-interpreted them a bit.

 

[Willie71]

Mark, I like your work, and think you have made a knife that suits your purpose. However, I showed your knife to a couple hunters and asked what they thought, and neither said they would use it for the stated purpose. Make what worked for you. Have a few people try it out and get feedback.

I think John Doyle and Karl Anderson have refined the hunting knife to perfection. It’s pretty hard to improve on what they produce for that purpose.

 

[Brock Cutlery]

Thanks Willie. I have to pursue this, even if it ends up sucking. I'm sure I'll settle eventually on something I love that works well.
I appreciate your showing it around and getting some opinions. It is a pretty drastic deviation from the norm, so I guess I shouldn't expect it to be well accepted until it is proven.
There are already things about the grind I am changing, and it will certainly continue to evolve thanks to all the great advice I am getting here.

 

[Willie71]

Thanks Willie. I have to pursue this, even if it ends up sucking. I'm sure I'll settle eventually on something I love that works well.
I appreciate your showing it around and getting some opinions. It is a pretty drastic deviation from the norm, so I guess I shouldn't expect it to be well accepted until it is proven.
There are already things about the grind I am changing, and it will certainly continue to evolve thanks to all the great advice I am getting here.

I don’t hunt myself, so I get feedback from a couple hunters I’ve known for decades. They’ve helped me refine my designs, and I’ve ended up making knives that look a lot like John and Karl’s knives. Not as well done, of course.

 

[jdm61]

One of the biggest points of contention with those traditional hunter blades is the choil vs no choil argument.

I don’t hunt myself, so I get feedback from a couple hunters I’ve known for decades. They’ve helped me refine my designs, and I’ve ended up making knives that look a lot like John and Karl’s knives. Not as well done, of course.

 

[Willie71]

One of the biggest points of contention with those traditional hunter blades is the choil vs no choil argument.

Length of ricasso too. Some like to have enough room to choke up, others like the better leverage the shorter ricasso gives without needing to choke up. Shorter ricasso seem to be much more popular.

 

[Brock Cutlery]

... And further, I can't get around having such a tall blade but less than 20% of that height is primary bevel. Seems like a lot of wasted space/unnecessary extra mass....

You really got me thinking on it. Thanks John.

 

[Busto]

This "Nesmuk" style is one of the most requested styles I receive...There are many variations but Bob Loveless Nailed it!!!

 

[Willie71]

This "Nesmuk" style is one of the most requested styles I receive...There are many variations but Bob Loveless Nailed it!!!

One of my hunter buddies just told me that is a perfect design. I’m going to have to bite the bullit and make one. Sigh.....

 

[J. Doyle]

One of the biggest points of contention with those traditional hunter blades is the choil vs no choil argument.

The counter point to that is having an edge that loses some length with every sharpening because that last little bit right next to the plunge lines is almost impossible to sharpen, at least not without gouging and scratching and rounding your nice clean crisp lines.

Plus the knives that get repeated sharpening over the years look like crap as that edge wears up higher and higher.

Its a trade-off....like most things knifemaking.....you can have not snagging that heel/choil/notch on stuff or immediate and long term ease of maintenance/lasting pleasing aesthetics. Myself and 98% of my collectors choose the latter.

 

[jdm61]

I agree with you and your customers, but that is because I just think it looks cooler.

The counter point to that is having an edge that loses some length with every sharpening because that last little bit right next to the plunge lines is almost impossible to sharpen, at least not without gouging and scratching and rounding your nice clean crisp lines.

Plus the knives that get repeated sharpening over the years look like crap as that edge wears up higher and higher.

Its a trade-off....like most things knifemaking.....you can have not snagging that heel/choil/notch on stuff or immediate and long term ease of maintenance/lasting pleasing aesthetics. Myself and 98% of my collectors choose the latter.