Some 2nd impressions of Al Mar SERE 2000

ehhh

ehhh

Joined
Feb 4, 2006
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After reading countless recommendations and positive reviews for the SERE 2000, I decided I had to get one. Bought one about a month ago, received it, inspected it and found an odd grind at the start of the false edge. I thought to myself, this can't be the Al Mar that Bladeforums so highly recommends (countless "best fit and finish for production company" comments) and I got an RMA and sent it in to be inspected. I must say though, the fit was amazing, solid lockup, no play, perfectly fit handles. Finish on the blade is a different story...

Here's where things start to get interesting.
I had written my contact info very clearly on the RMA description, but I actually had to call in to check on the status. I was told that the flaw "is well within their machine's tolerances", "should be expected from a production quality knife" and that it should not be covered by warranty. But they would replace it anyways out of good will.

Throughout the conversation the rep was not very friendly and made it very clear that the knife should not be exchanged but they would do it anyways to be nice. The man even said "We would not feel bad just returning your knife to you." He said he would have one of their "engineers" find a suitable replacement. Nice right? Not quite. He made a point that I should not expect it to be perfect (well ok that's reasonable) because it would be a waste of the engineer's time (nevermind) and that he wouldn't want that (translation: we'll look for a nicer one, but we're gonna do it real half-assed cuz we have better stuff to do). Not the best customer service in my opinion...I hope other knife companies don't have this kind of customer service. I've dealt with customer service for non-knife products and they were all very pleasant and helpful.

The turnaround time was good, and they got it back to me in about a week and a half. I picked it up from the post office today and gave it a thorough inspection. Right away I picked up on the false edge grind once again. This time it wasn't where it started, but where it ends at the tip. One side is perfect and the "spine" where the false edge grind meets the front edge grind goes right to the tip, but on the other side the "spine" ends ~1.5mm above the tip. Not really the end of the world or anything, but for a $140 knife from a highly regarded company to have worse grind symmetry than my cheap S&W is saying something.

Other than that, I really like the knife. Built like a tank, put together incredibly solid with a great fit. Finishing on the blade (grinding) could be much better and their QC is questionable. Their customer service also leaves something to be desired. I think I'm just gonna stick with this knife because I don't feel like paying shipping, nor do I want to deal with their customer service again (I have a feeling they would not be so forgiving a second time around and would just send it back to me).

Compared to my Benchmade 710HS, the fit is notably better (no blade play, VERY solid) but the finish lags behind (poor grinding on both SEREs).
I have no doubt that this knife will perform well for reasonable tasks, though. The blade is fairly stout, lockup is solid, the handle is grippy and filling and I really like the low ride clip. The action is a bit tight, but still smooth (as long as there's no wobble). Factory edge is much sharper than the factory edge on my 710HS. I have a feeling it'll be a solid performer despite the cosmetic issues.

My conclusion:
Functionality: I have high expectations :thumbup:
Fit: Great, solid, built like a tank :thumbup:
Finish: Wishy-washy, I'd be cautious :confused:
Customer service: Just plain bad experience with them, wouldn't want to deal with them again :thumbdn:
Would I consider purchasing another Al Mar Knife in the future? I think the money could be better spent elsewhere.

-Jon
 
Very interesting, and good to know.

This customer "service" guy had obviously never heard of the 1-250 rule taught in sales:

Treat one person badly, and 250 others will know about it.

(And that was before the internet...)
 
Actually, I've gotten used to seeing flaws like that on custom, hand-made, knives more than factory knives.

You made me get out my SERE 2000 and check it. Mine is perfect in that area.

I'm one of the, several, people on this forum who always rave about Al Mar products. Sorry about that.:eek:

Your experience bothers me too. The person you talked to aparently thought you were a pest and was irritated with you. You just can't do that in a world that has internet forums.

Not that it's the case with you, but I think people like the guy you talked to fail to realize that a purchase like that ($125 give or take) is a big deal to many people and they expect to not be disappointed.

Is yours black coated? Where did you buy it, if you don't mind my asking? I know of at least one dealer on this forum who would have taken it back and then, personally, fished through their stock of knives to find you one that's perfect to send back to you. In other words, treated you better than Al Mar Knives did.

.
 
No need to be sorry about promoting an excellent knife. It is a knife to rave about, I definitely agree. It's great and I plan to put it to good use despite the little annoying details and I'm sure there are plenty out there without any problems whatsoever. The fact that there are at least some knives with these problems out there does lead me to question their QC though (what are the chances that both the ones I receive have a problem?). Their customer service is my main complaint though.

I bought it off ebay as NIB (upon inspecting it, it was definitely unused...factory edge, very clean, no signs of wear, otherwise I would've shipped it back to the guy). When I called AMK to find out if I would be covered, I was told that the warranty would only cover defects in workmanship if they determined it left the factory that way. The problem was at the false edge grind, so unless that little corner was used as a hammer, I don't think it could have been due to wear and tear.

I understand that buying off ebay could limit the warranty (and I probably should have mentioned it in my initial post, sorry), but I was clearly told workmanship would still be covered so long as they determined it was a factory defect when I inquired about warranty service. I do understand that this is pushing their limits so my expectations weren't high. However, I did not expect to be treated in such a condescending way. The guy wasn't too pleasant from the start either (before knowing where I bought it).

Since they said the flaw was within tolerances of their machines, that probably means they determined that it left the factory that way, otherwise they could have just told me (nicely) that my knife would not be covered because it looks like it was altered outside the factory.

Either way, they could have told me nicely whatever conclusion they came to and I would have nothing to complain about as far as their customer service goes, even if they didn't replace it. Then my only issue with AMK would be with their QC. Everything else about it is great.

It's ultimately up to you guys to decide whether this could be an isolated case or not. I'm just sharing my experience/opinions and I don't want to sound too biased. Maybe this is how they treat customers who bought their stuff through ebay? Either way I don't see why it should be such a huge problem, since they made their profit even before the knife was sold to me, but that's a topic for another discussion.

You wouldn't be wrong in assuming that I have certain expectations from a $100+ knife, because I do. I'm a college student actually, and after coming here to research a knife to replace my old S&W (bought several years ago when I was first getting into knives) my addiction grew :rolleyes:. I'm not on the biggest budget, so for that sum of money I want something I can live with. So far all my knives have passed my careful scrutinization (USMC Ka-bar, SOG Seal Pup, SOG Seal Pup Elite, BM 710HS, most of these MUCH cheaper than the SERE).

The knife is satin, so I may try to fix the grind myself if it ever really gets on my nerves. I have a feeling you're going to suggest newgraham, and I've been meaning to purchase something from them. I do have a Swamp Rat Rat Trap on order though, so I am trying to keep my addiction under control :D
I've got my eye on a Becker Necker though...so maybe...;)

-Jon
 
That is some pretty bad service right there. That's exactly what he was saying, "Even though we shouldn't be getting you a new one, we will. But we're gonna do it half-assed because we have better things to do."

That ass sure knows how to make his company look bad.
 
Django606 said:
That is some pretty bad service right there. That's exactly what he was saying, "Even though we shouldn't be getting you a new one, we will. But we're gonna do it half-assed because we have better things to do."

That ass sure knows how to make his company look bad.
Click to expand...
That sums it up nicely.

Replacing it was a nice gesture and all, but the service was less than satisfactory.
 
I had one with good fit and finish as well as good lock up. I only got rid of it because I thought it was too heavy in the pocket while hiking and didn't offer anything extra in performance for the additional weight.
 
I bet now it's more like treat one person badly and 500-1000 will know about it.

I do think that we are more critical than average people would be about their knives. On the other hand, what "average joe" do you know that would pay $125 for a knife? Also, what "average joe" do you know that would pay $125 for a knife and NOT expect it to be flawless?

Al Mar certainly slipped up on this one.

I've never owned an Al Mar product. I think that any company that builds production knives should at least have a decent website. Al Mar is lacking in this area. When you click on any one of the knives or on the catalog link you should get a web page with the details. Not a PDF file that you have to open.

The Emerson website is a perfect example of what a website should NOT look like.
 
After seeing so many positive fit and finish comments, I wonder how I got 2 with mediocre finishing. :confused: Then again, it is subjective and what others consider good, I may consider unacceptable in a knife of this caliber. I'll say the finish on it is overall decent, but I had much higher expectations. If the knife was <$50 I probably wouldn't mind at all.

No complaints about the lockup and general solidity of the knife, it feels like a fixed blade when it's open and that's what I like most about it. I also like the low clip and prefer the untamed, grippy G10 over the smoothly textured G10 of my 710.

It is a bit heavy, but I'm used to carrying folders that push the legal size limits. It's fine for me if I'm wearing jeans, but if I'm in khakis it gets rather uncomfortable.
 
ehhh said:
Either way, they could have told me nicely whatever conclusion they came to and I would have nothing to complain about as far as their customer service goes, even if they didn't replace it. Then my only issue with AMK would be with their QC. Everything else about it is great.
Click to expand...

Yup. You said it. That's what it boils down to.

If it was black-coated I was going to offer to buy or trade you out of it. I hate to see someone unhappy with an Al Mar.;)

.
 
I'm sure I'll get over the grind issue. Regrettably, my experience with their customer service will stay with me forever.

I did consider putting it in the trade forum, but I do really like the knife overall so I think I'm going to keep it. I would also feel bad trading/selling something that I feel is flawed...just not my style I guess.
Nice gesture though, thank you.
 
IMO, most everyone here on the forums, myself included, really expect too much from production knives.
 
DaveH said:
IMO, most everyone here on the forums, myself included, really expect too much from production knives.
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LOL. :D

Ya think?

Sometimes yes, but othertimes I think there are blatent errors that should just not be acceptable on a knife that is over $100.
 
After reading the thread I have a question. Who or what grinds the blades?

If it is a machine tool properly setup it should be identical and perfect every time.

If it is being passed around a workshop with a bunch of different grinding stations (one guys does only the left side because he is left handed) etc., then I would expect some variations and imperfections.

Anyone know how the Sere's are ground and sharpened?
 
I'm not sure all I know is that the two I have came as sharp or sharper than any other production folder I've had. Now if you don't think the grind looks nice that may be another thing. 125 isn't a lot to pay for a nice production folder though it sounds like you may be happier with something like a sebenza.
 
I'll have to admit my standards for things I enjoy collecting and using (knives and my pool cue come to mind) are very high if they are expensive ($100+ for a knife is expensive in my opinion).

The grinding on all my other knives are off a tiny bit too, but most of them cost a fraction of what a SERE costs.

I'll put up a picture of it soon and let you decide how picky I am. I know I am very picky so I don't think I'll take any offense if you agree :D

DGG: I was told by the man on the phone that Al Mar Knives are finished by hand, whatever that means. I would guess they are assembled and tightened by hand, which would explain why the fit is so good. Maybe the false edge is ground by hand as well, because that is where both my problems were.

beef: Yes, the blade came quite sharp and it looks like it's sharpened by hand, since it isn't quite as neat or straight as the sharpening on any of my other knives. Personally I think 125 is getting to the upper prices of production knives. I know there are much more expensive ones, but there are also plenty of cheaper, good quality knives out there. I probably will end up trying out a Sebenza in the future, but I probably won't have the funds for that for a while :D

EDIT:
Here's a picture of it, I've added a line to give you a better idea of where the spine ends, because it isn't that easy to see in a picture.

point15rz.jpg
 
Mine has the same problem, I originally bought it to add to my collection. I called and got an rma to send it back, but I decided just to keep it as a user. It’s one of the best feeling knives that I have but the fit and finish are not what I expected from a knife in this price range. Of all the Knives I own none of them has such a noticeable defect from the factory. Don’t get me wrong I love the knife and most people might not notice the grind being off and the other little defects. But it did turn me off from the Mini SERE I was going to buy, for now at least.:o They need to get thier QC up to snuff I think.
 
Huh, just looked at both of mine and they are fine, probably lucky since they both came off e-bay. Yeah I don't spend much over 150-180 tops for a production piece, and that is pretty bad on the grind. I'm sure it's still a hell of a cutter. If I were going to use it it wouldn't bother me that much.
 
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