Some advice for college

Charisma counts. A college degree best helps those most who have the ability to sell themselves to an employer. If you look like a toad and have the personality of sandpaper, you can expect to spend most of your time at the oars and very little of it on deck. You might be better off getting into a profession, via a professional degree or a trade, where you can drive your own business and directly put yourself in a position to put your problem solving skills to work.

n2s
 
Oh, I forgot to add. If college isn't for you, you'll likely do better working for yourself than someone else. Do something other people won't do for themselves like cut grass.
 
Another vote for community college here. My wife piddled around for 4 years part time just taking various GE courses and some fun classes until she finally figured out what's she wanted to do. Once she decided to go into Culinary, she ended up graduating with 3 culinary degrees at once.

She now is employed by the same school as a head chef in the child development department, started a program within the culinary program that gives students experiance in institutional style cooking (rather than all fine dinning) and helps her out in her kitchen.

A 4 year degree doesn't have to be the final goal, many good jobs can be had with an Associates degree as well. But that being said, my wife is continuing schooling for a BA in culinary management part time.


Lots of good advice in here, hope it helps someone out!


-X
 
There is some really good advice here. I sort of wish this thread was around when I was a senior in high school, as I've found a lot of this out the hard way!

I'm a senior at Penn State (please, no comments), and should all go as planned, will graduate next December with a degree in Veterinary and Biomedical Sciences. But before that I attended a community college and it was absolutely worth it. I was able to pay for all the schooling myself without taking loans. I originally was enrolled as some medical science BS major but later switched to Biology, and let me tell you, despite being a community college, was no joke. I was able to knock out almost all of my "general humanities" and "general arts" (these basically encompass your music classes, psychology, sociology, history, etc) at a fraction of the cost of Penn State's tuition. In addition, a lot of my basic biology courses transferred. As others have mentioned, anyone else considering this route should absolutely make sure the classes will transfer before hand. Fast forward a little, I ended up spending more than 2 years at the community college since i had such a good time and took as many biology courses as i could. Another warning: if you plan on going to a professional school (Vet. or Medical), don't bother taking the higher level science courses here. I'm mainly talking about the infamous organic chemistry (just mentioning the name still gives me chills). I ended up not even caring about a degree towards the end of it, and because my fear for public speaking was so great I was forced to settle for the only degree that didn't require that class: General Studies. (This came back to bite me, since I soon realized that all degrees now require public speaking at what i'm sure is every school around the country, so I faced my fears and took it at Penn State)

Now that I'm almost ready to graduate I find myself asking, "Was it really worth it?" When it's all said and done, I will be in substantial debt (between 50-100K maybe?), so what happens if I don't find a job? Come to think of it, what can I do with my degree? Gollnick kind of touched on it in an earlier post; I am limited unless I decide to further my education. I would love to go to Vet school, but admittance to the limited number of vet schools is VERY COMPETITIVE. I have a 3.5 GPA and that is middle of the road for most vet schools. Some of the better schools wouldn't even look at me with that! I'm sorry, but I just can't make myself study as much as the people do that get those sorts of grades. I need to have fun. (**Future and current students, please don't look to me as a role model. This probably isn't the best advice!**) A representative for a recently accredited Vet School (that i would rather not go to) in the Caribbean estimated after 4 years the students will be $250,000 in debt. That doesn't even include airfare, books, food, OR ANY DEBT ACCRUED WHILE GETTING YOUR BACHELOR's.

So, in short: (1) Go to a community college is your money means something to you, (2) College isn't for everyone, and (3) Make sure it's worth it.
 
Gollnick said:
Bill Gates dropped out of college. So did Steve Jobs. You can certainly find examples of people who have done extremely well by any measure without a college degree. But these are "the exceptions that prove the rule." Statistically, you will have less unemployed time, earn higher salaries, and retire wealthier if you get a college degree. Here is what the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (which "has no horse in this race") says:

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The salary difference between a high school diploma and a bachelor's degree is, on average 164%. And that's the average. Some majors will double (or even triple) that difference.

Furthermore, while we hear stories about people with college degrees who can't find jobs, the statistic is that last year you were about twice as likely to be unemployed if all had was a high school diploma vs. a bachelor's degree. The reason why we don't see stories in the popular media about high school graduates who are unemployed is that this is not considered unusual; it doesn't "make the news."

College makes financial sense and can pay off in the long run. But it is like any major purchase you make, a car, a house, etc. You need to approach it as an investment and you need to "do your homework" before making your decisions.




(By the way, you may notice those very attractive bars labeled "Professional Degree." What's that? Medical Doctors, Pharmacists, Lawyers, and Veterinarians. Those are nice bars to be on... if you can get there.)
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While there are some good points here, I think the numbers about education vs paycheck get heavily skewed due to the high number of people who aren't motivated to go to school or work. Those who are willing to work but just don't have passion for school get drowned by the do nothings. I think one has to keep that in mind.

BTW, don't take my posts as favoring not going to school. I favor spending education money wisely and getting the bang for your buck. I am a product of higher education and had to be for what I wanted to be. It's just not worth it for everyone.

If four years of college is not for you, and you want to do well.... Expect to work for yourself, get some related education. Your other option is specialized trade school.

You are going to have to do your research either way.
 
There is a ton of good information in this thread. I am a senior at Michigan Tech majoring in Mechanical Engineering with a minor in Data Acquisition. I want to add to the discussion about community college. As has been said, taking general education classes at community college can be a MUCH LESS EXPENSIVE option for many. BUT - if you are planning on a degree in Engineering or similar technical degree - the curriculum is relatively linear and you MUST have thorough knowledge of building-block classes. You cannot learn Dynamics or Solid Mechanics without first understanding Statics. You cannot learn Mechanical Vibrations without first understanding Dynamics. You cannot go ANYWHERE without a very solid base in Thermodynamics. Because every class builds upon the previous, you can only do so much each semester - general education classes fill up the space.

I have seen many, many people crash and burn in engineering programs because they push too hard after community college for two years. Some people cannot take 12 credits to remain a full time student and therefore receive scholarships, because they can't complete the prerequisites to get into advanced classes. Squeezing a 4 or 4.5 year curriculum into 2 years simply doesn't work as well in a technical degree.

I would recommend those seeking a engineering or technical degree do not take community college classes for more than a year. You will get behind and it may end up that community college is more of a drain than a money-saver. However - everyone's mileage varies. I know people who have pulled this off but many more who regret community college.
 
I have a BS in Engineering (Mechanical Major). I had no issues going from Community College to A university. It all depends on the school and the person. My CC worked with the University on curriculum.
 
Woodrow F Call said:
I have a BS in Engineering (Mechanical Major). I had no issues going from Community College to A university. It all depends on the school and the person. My CC worked with the University on curriculum.
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As I said, your mileage may vary. Some universities start the curriculum immediately, so if you start later you are playing catch-up.
 
MIKE1218 said:
As I said, your mileage may vary. Some universities start the curriculum immediately, so if you start later you are playing catch-up.
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That's why you research it. Some people just aren't made for it. Some aren't made for working for a living. I don't think I'm really made for management.
 
Excellent advice in previous posts. I am a big advocate of education, and my wife and I both paid for our own degrees, which now stand at MS degrees for both of us. These have been very lucrative for us, combined with 20+ years of experience and some additional certifications, chiefly the PMP (Project Management Professional) .

However, I would like to point out an area that has been growing rapidly in the last 10 years or so, and that is company certifications in various fields. Generally this is in technical fields, such as Microsoft certifications for database administrators, network engineers, etc. Oracle also has database administrator certifications, and Cisco has network engineer certifications. Additionally there is the ITIL v3, and the A+. These do not require college but do have sometimes heavy demands on pre-existing experience.

I think this is an excellent route for the technically-savvy but non-college-bound.
 
i got my undergrad in finance and was lucky to get a good job. 7 years later i went back for a mba in finance and i am happy with the job i have now. one thing i learned since college who you know helps. in two out of the three companies i have worked for since undergrad i was referred by someone i worked with in the past. overall while nothing is assured i think the degree helps. my two best friends did go to college, needles to say i am happy i did.
 
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Another thing on going from CC to a university. If you have an idea of the degree plan you want to go with, research the classes needed and take those classes at the community college. Many schools nowadays that are accredited will have universal acceptance of credits from other schools, at least here in texas. However, some schools require you to take their classes for certain things because they teach them a certain way that they believe in, but this is rarer than not.

Just don't get caught up with what a CC requires for their associates in whatever, but concentrate on what the university requires for their bachelors.
 
texas gun person said:
Another thing on going from CC to a university. If you have an idea of the degree plan you want to go with, research the classes needed and take those classes at the community college. Many schools nowadays that are accredited will have universal acceptance of credits from other schools, at least here in texas. However, some schools require you to take their classes for certain things because they teach them a certain way that they believe in, but this is rarer than not.

Just don't get caught up with what a CC requires for their associates in whatever, but concentrate on what the university requires for their bachelors.
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Good point. I did that...waste of time. I actually have yet to even qualify for graduation. Why do I care about an associates in general studies when I will get a bachelor's in VBSC.

Schools even have nifty tools that tell you if the credits are known to transfer, and if so, what specific course they transfer as. I've had great luck with classes that didn't transfer by going to the head of the department (who was my advisor at the time) and having them petition that it count.
 
Make sure what you want to do is what you want to do. Make sure you're willing to do the work for your intended career. If you want to be a nurse, realize that that position involves working with a lot of icky bodily fluids that most people don't even want to look at. Just because you like video games or movies, doesn't mean you want to make them. Teaching will involve dealing with at least a few miserable abusive kids who don't want to learn, and you're the bad guy. Make sure you look at the work and not just the salary and benefits.

Don't treat college like high school part two. If you just go to class and pass with C's and D's, you may still get a degree, but you haven't picked up any useful skills or experiences and you will have a hard time starting your career. There is a lot of work involved in college, that involves class work, internships, clubs, projects involving extra lab time, and extra curricular projects, and even with all this, it's still hard to get your foot in the door. Without these things, you're not likely to do very well in real life.

Do not be a full time undeclared major student. I've seen plenty of people waste a lot of time taking pointless courses and getting nowhere. I knew one who spent at least eight years as a full time student on a bachelors degree in on campus housing. That means he started when I was in the eighth grade. This is an extreme case, but if this is the way you go, you might as well start getting familiar with McNuggets.
 
GWashington1732 said:
Also ask yourself what you want to do with your life, don't pick something you hate just because there's a chance of making a lot of money at it. If you hate math, don't go to be an engineer, because it's nothing but math, and even if you make lots and lots of money, you're still going to be unhappy and probably bad at your job.
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I respectfully disagree with this. I HATED math, to me it was a speed bump to get over to become a mechanical engineer.

I graduated college and got a desk job and HATED it for the first 2-3 month, then i realized that i don't live to work, i work to live. With the higher pay i was able to afford hobbies that i was interested in.

Now i have a kid and wife and my job allows me to provide for them while with no stress, i am able to purchase a home and afford my hobbies still. As a side note i don't hate my job as much now that i find something to do in that field that i enjoy.

i have a lot of friends who "pursuit" their passion and ended up spending a lot of time in college, graduated without a marketable career and currently do something they don't like anyways.

all i am saying is money makes the world go round, so don't write the higher paying jobs out because you hate it, but if you are going to do it COMMIT to it, otherwise you would be better off not doing it at all (school debt)
 
silversilvia said:
I respectfully disagree with this. I HATED math, to me it was a speed bump to get over to become a mechanical engineer.

I graduated college and got a desk job and HATED it for the first 2-3 month, then i realized that i don't live to work, i work to live. With the higher pay i was able to afford hobbies that i was interested in.

Now i have a kid and wife and my job allows me to provide for them while with no stress, i am able to purchase a home and afford my hobbies still. As a side note i don't hate my job as much now that i find something to do in that field that i enjoy.

i have a lot of friends who "pursuit" their passion and ended up spending a lot of time in college, graduated without a marketable career and currently do something they don't like anyways.

all i am saying is money makes the world go round, so don't write the higher paying jobs out because you hate it, but if you are going to do it COMMIT to it, otherwise you would be better off not doing it at all (school debt)
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And some people can make this work, but I find that most people who go into a field, who have no passion or interest in it and just want to see a paycheck are pretty miserable people. I'm not saying you have to be able to dedicate your entire life to your profession, but you should have more than a passing interest in it, or at the very least, your interest should extend beyond how much money you can make by doing it.

On the other hand, you should make sure there is a career for your major, no matter how much passion you have for it. Some majors offer no advantage in potential careers, and most of them are things that you can easily learn on your own or for a lot less money. Ask yourself before spending thousands of dollars, "What will my bachelors in acting get me after college that private acting lessons won't?"
 
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I will be graduating in May with a teaching degree. I love the saying "those that can, do, and those that can't, teach". Never been further from the truth and those people that say that probably can not do either, or are jealous that someone has a degree and they don't. Makes me laugh every time I hear it. The reason I laugh is because I have done just about everything from construction to concrete, plumbing, electrical, photography, worked full-time for the military doing graphic design, airbrush rifles in my free time, make knives, been in the military over 12 years now with multiple deployments, and many other things. Believe me, I can do a lot of things.

I was going to major in criminal justice but then I realized, you don't need a criminal justice degree to be a cop so why not get a degree in something different in case you don't like being a cop. So i chose teaching. There will always be a demand for them, and the pay in my area is not much different than a cops pay. Also, with all the bashing on public education and teachers lately I decided to get proactive and go in that direction to try to make a difference. I know, its a small difference, but its better than sitting on the sidelines and bitching like most people do.

About college and a degree.

-You will learn stuff at college but just like everything else, most of the stuff you learn will be in the field. This is just like the military, you go to boot and then AIT and learn all the basics, then you get sent to a unit and everything is different and then you finally learn your job.

-a degree is worthless. That is false ( depending on the degree ) . There are many jobs around me that are only available to those with a 4 year degree. It doesn't even matter what field it is in. A degree will broaden your employment opportunity.

- depending on your major you will not get rich and you might make less than someone without a degree, but if you look at statistics of those employed and the pay rate of jobs, those with a degree have a higher employment rate and a higher income, traditionally. For you people that are going to reply and say "i don't have a lick of college and I make bookoo money". Good for you, but that is generally not the case in a broad sampling.

- If you can go to school without going into debt then go for it. If you are going to be thousands and maybe hundreds of thousands in debt, then I would not recommend it. Mine was paid for by Uncle Sam and I actually got a monthly check for going to school. But I don't consider it a handout since I spent about 4 of the last 12 years overseas for Uncle Sam.

- Is college easy? It was for me because I was married with Kids and I grew up a lot while in the military. For a single 19 year old, it could be very tough and a lot of them don't make it past their first semester. This is my tip to those that go to college, show up for class and turn something in, and you will probably graduate.

That is all I can think of for now. Hope this helps.
 
GWashington1732 said:
On the other hand, you should make sure there is a career for your major, no matter how much passion you have for it. Some majors offer no advantage in potential careers.
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i think you hit the point on this one.

I see a lot of art majors go into it because they like to draw, well some of them do make it but most work shitty jobs with a lot of debt. And some other realize this and go into graphic designs and do work with advertising.
 
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