Some Sharpmaker Help please?

BJ987

BJ987

Joined
Jul 21, 2020
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Just got a Spyderco Tri-angle Sharpmaker and used it today on a few of my knives of various steels (9CR18Mov, D2, AUS-10A, S30V, S35VN). I'd call myself a sharpening newb for sure. I messed around with stones when I was younger, but I don't think I ever did a good job :rolleyes:.

Watched a couple videos (this is actually my second Sharpmaker but I haven't used one for a decade), and went to work. None of the knives were really dull; I'd say the dullest was just shy of being able to slice paper cleanly.

40 degree inclusive side for everything, 20-30 strokes per side for each stage (edge of med. rods, flat side med. rods, edge of fine rods, flat side fine rods). Problem is, after first stage with the edge of med. rods, knife cleanly slices paper and is almost shaving sharp. When I switch the flat side of rods and do the 20 strokes per side, I test again and it is less sharp... I keep going with the white rods and final result is shaving sharp mostly. Odd thing is, the softest steel I have (I think), the 9CR18Mov ended up as the least sharp after sharpening.

I definitely think I'm messing something up along the way. Interested in any advice.
 
The Sharpmaker won't sharpen until the blade angle matches the Sharpmaker angle.
Use a sharpie to blacken the bevel. Take a few strokes on the corner of the triangle stone.
Then look at the edge. If the very edge of the bevel is still black, you haven't matched the angle yet.

None of the alloys you are working with will sharpen in 20 strokes, especially if the angles don't match.

If the angle matches, you can sharpen 420HC using 20 strokes. Alloys with carbides? Nyet.
 
knarfeng said:
The Sharpmaker won't sharpen until the blade angle matches the Sharpmaker angle.
Use a sharpie to blacken the bevel. Take a few strokes on the corner of the triangle stone.
Then look at the edge. If the very edge of the bevel is still black, you haven't matched the angle yet.

None of the alloys you are working with will sharpen in 20 strokes, especially if the angles don't match.

If the angle matches, you can sharpen 420HC using 20 strokes. Alloys with carbides? Nyet.
Click to expand...
So I did the sharpie trick. After about 20 strokes on each side, the marker was completely gone from the right side of my knife, but still very much present on the left side... Ok, so obviously something is horribly wrong with my technique. Fast forward about 40 strokes later, still sharpie on the left side. Started getting pissed and did about 100 strokes only on one side (I know this is probably a big no no). This is when I realized that I had the sticks set in the 30 degree slots instead of the 40 degree slots like I've been using... Now I'm really pissed at myself. So, I switched to the 40 degree side and gave it another good 30 minutes of probably 200 strokes on each side... Marker still on the left side, pretty sure my knife is fCked and I'm calling it a night. Would really like to save this knife (CS American Lawman), so hopefully tomorrow, with a calm head and hopefully some advice I can figure out how...
 
Been there. Done that. (I think most of us have at one point or another.)
Not to worry. The knife is not ruined. Slow and steady will get it back.
 
Probably the way the knife is being held. I used to use a saber grip with my thumb on the spine to sharpen with the sharpmaker, but I found out that the knife was actually tilted a few degrees to the left instead of straight up and down.

After much trail and error, I found I can hold it completely straight up and down if I use a hammer type of grip with my thumb wrapped around the left scale. It’s the only way I seem to be able to hold it absolutely vertical.
 
willc said:
There is a good chance that the bevels on the knife are not equal.
Click to expand...

This ^^^

Your knife is fine, it’s not your technique and it’s perfectly acceptable to work more on one side (or even a small section of one side).

This is one of the downsides of the sharpmaker, your are relying on having a knife with perfectly set factory bevels that match are either 30 or 40 degrees. If not you are facing a lot of work to reprofile the apex to those angles
 
Craig James said:
This ^^^

Your knife is fine, it’s not your technique and it’s perfectly acceptable to work more on one side (or even a small section of one side).

This is one of the downsides of the sharpmaker, your are relying on having a knife with perfectly set factory bevels that match are either 30 or 40 degrees. If not you are facing a lot of work to reprofile the apex to those angles
Click to expand...

This is one of the reasons I suggest that people give freehand sharpening a go.
I own a Sharpmaker and I use it very often but I don’t solely rely on the 90 degree up and down swipe.

It is not difficult to adjust the knife angle on the fly with the SM.
One side may be 90 degrees but I may have to cant it a couple degrees on the other.

When I get a new knife I will most times follow the factory angle and most times they are not equal.
Then I usually take it to an extra course stone like the Manticore and equal out the bevels.

I am not sure this is my luck but the past 3 or 4 Spyderco knives I got were very unequal and they were all on the same side.
To grind off the factory lines the spine was way up on the side with the clip and almost laying down on non clip side.
 
Deep breath. Your blade is fine. The SM ceramic rods are slow at metal removal.

You can use spacers under the ends of the SM to adjust your angle. Someone told me 2 quarters is about one degree.

Use the sharpie and figure out what angle each side of the bevel is at. Then sharpen to a burr using those angles.

I find that I need to use the diamond triangle if I want to raise a burr quickly. The ceramics cut very slowly for me.
 
Some things that cut slower than the sharpmaker ceramic rods:

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Aside from bench stones/plates, diamond or cbn rods for the sharpmaker come in handy with situations like this.
 
You could add a Sharpmaker CBN or diamond rod. They’re functionally the same. That’ll cut metal faster than what you’re using.
 
Has been a revelation to me that MOST of my store bought knives over the years have unequal edge bevels - OR - good for a bit and then some run off. This compelled me to purchase a set of diamond rods for the Sharpmaker. If I see - using the sharpie technique - that the bevels are off I stop and set up the diamond rods. Still a tedious process - sometimes - but much more efficient to establish equal bevels this way and then simply move on to refining the edge with the other rods.

AND - counting your strokes is just OCD. :rolleyes: I have to dope slap myself everytime I hear the little count starting. :) As I recall, in the video Sal talks about the number of strokes but really...
 
I do not know if this will help but....i went to congress tools and bought a couple of the 'moldmaster' 'hard SiC' 1/2 inch triangles to use in the SM. I will post back on how they are. They are pretty cheap and I got the 120 and 240 grit. Lets see if they cut faster than the diamond triangles. I saw an old post that said they do.....we will see.
 
AntDog said:
Probably the way the knife is being held. I used to use a saber grip with my thumb on the spine to sharpen with the sharpmaker, but I found out that the knife was actually tilted a few degrees to the left instead of straight up and down.

After much trail and error, I found I can hold it completely straight up and down if I use a hammer type of grip with my thumb wrapped around the left scale. It’s the only way I seem to be able to hold it absolutely vertical.
Click to expand...
I have been doing it exclusively with saber grip thinking it would be the best way for me to keep the knife vertical. I will try hammer grip and see if it helps. Thanks.
willc said:
There is a good chance that the bevels on the knife are not equal.
Click to expand...
Well, if they weren't equal before they definitely aren't now. No expert, as I said, but I believe with my "mishap" I made a 30 degree back bevel on the left side of my knife only... How would I equal that out? Sharpie method and naked eye?
tommytman said:
Deep breath. Your blade is fine. The SM ceramic rods are slow at metal removal.

You can use spacers under the ends of the SM to adjust your angle. Someone told me 2 quarters is about one degree.

Use the sharpie and figure out what angle each side of the bevel is at. Then sharpen to a burr using those angles.

I find that I need to use the diamond triangle if I want to raise a burr quickly. The ceramics cut very slowly for me.
Click to expand...
Hmm, definitely didn't know anything about spacers. I'll have to look at my SM later and see what you're talking about. And by "slow at removal" are we talking 200ish strokes per side to reprofile factory edge, or more like 500+?
 
Get the diamond or cbn rods. Trying to profile a knife with the brown stones will take you, literally, forever. That's not what they're for. Using the diamond/cbn put a 30 degree edge on the knife. When you've apexed using the coarse rods then deburr, switch to the brown rods in the 40 degree slots and microbevel.

Also, your edge will suffer when you get frustrated or tired. Take a break. Use the tools how they are supposed to be used and you'll get good results. Honestly, spyderco should bundle the diamond or cbn with the brown rods instead of the brown and white.
 
"Hmm, definitely didn't know anything about spacers. I'll have to look at my SM later and see what you're talking about."
First thing to do is put the lawman with s35vn steel aside for know, knowing you did not hurt it in any way shape or form. I recommend you start with your 9CR and AUS8 knives:

Here is what you can do:

Learn the angles and how to change them-
Get a plastic see thru protractor and use your eye to match protractor's hash marks with the Sharpmaker's rod in the 40 degree angle slot, do it again for the 30 degree angle slot. Now add 2 quarters or whatever you want to try, underneath the Sharpmaker's base at one end. The things holding the base up will change the angle of the rod as you can see looking thru your protractor, even though the rod is in the 40 degree hole. You can also use a smart phone angle finder app, and just lay the side of your phone against rod face to find angles.

Match a knife's even or uneven bevels if they are not exactly 40 or 30 degrees-
There is nothing wrong with not "equaling out" your edges RIGHT NOW, that will come later; having uneven bevels is common for some factory grinds. Using the sharpie technique, and adjusting the base if necessary, match each side of the blade. Raise or lower Sharpmaker's base until sharpie color is scrubbed off, edge to shoulder of bevel, by the rod.

Sharpen your knife
Now proceed to sharpen the knife's 2 sides using each sides seperate matching angle, with just the brown rods for know (humor me for the first couple knives). Using this procedure you will get a sharp edge. And both 9CR and AUS8 get seriously sharp. After sharpening a couple knives to your liking, add in the white rods. Let us know how your doing.
 
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I bought an angle finder for carpentry work and you can use that to find sharpmaker angles as well...
 
So I bought a few moldmaker stones from Congress tool. The 1/2 inch triangles. I got 120 and 240 grit. The dimensions on the 240 grit are similar to the SM stones. The 120 were a tad small. I wrapped the 120 with a few layers of scotch tape and that snugged up the fit in the SM.
I need to find out if I need to use water or oil with these SiC stones . Then I can test them. For 5$ each they seem ok.
 
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