Sons of Anarchy.

Last anecdote but an amusing one from a different perspective.

In 1995 I was trading in a cruiser for a sport touring motorcycle so that my wife could more comfortably accompany me on long road trips out west.

I had to ride about 230 miles to Lake County, FL to trade my bike and in my zeal to get going that morning I had forgotten (for the first and only time that I can recall) to take my pistol.

Well, I got the bike traded and on the way home noticed about 20 to 30 lights coming up on me in my mirrors.

When the bikes caught up and got alongside I noticed that it was 30 or so "Outlaws" in full colors. Naturally, I thought that it was the wrong day to forget my gun as I was riding a Japanese bike.

Well, they passed me without incident (but for perhaps a contemptuous glance or two) and when they were out of sight my pulse throttled back down to normal.

About a half hour later I pulled into a rest stop to fuel the bike and what should I see but the entire "chapter" laying about the pumps drinking beer and carrying on.

Scenes of flaming Japanese gardens entered my mind and I did my very best to appear nonchalant.

A couple of the guys walked up on me and the bike and asked what it was. I told them it was an ST1100 designed for cross country travel. (It had a 7.5 gallon tank.)

"Looks fast", said one. I said that it would be once it was broken in as I had just picked her up.

"Well, best of luck with her. Ride safe", was his parting reply and off they went without so much as a backward glance.

Just goes to show that you can never just assume anything. (Naturally I didn't bother volunteering my vocation. :eek: ;))

First and last time I can remember leaving the house for a ride without my gun. :cool:
 
Blues said:
My experience (though harrowing enough for me and my tastes) was nothing compared to some of my colleagues who did much longer term and deeper investigations into the sub-culture.

Funny you mention Canada. Oftentimes folks don't think of Canada when it comes to outlaw gangs of this sort but it brings to mind an investigation my partner and I (and a couple of our ATF colleagues) worked together.

Through an informant we got hooked up with an individual who was supplying automatic weapons obtained in South Florida to fuel a war between the "Rock Machine" and Hells Angels that was ongoing in Quebec in the early 2000's. (He didn't care which side won as long as he profited from the conflict.)

He ended up serving time in our federal system before we shipped his butt off to the RCMP for them to do their thing with the dirtbag...

On another note, while the bikers sometimes did contract work for the mob, sometimes they were rivals in competing enterprises, such as the "topless" industry in Nassau and Suffolk Counties in NY.
Back in the early 80's the mob ran many of the clubs in Nassau while the Pagans ran several of the clubs in Suffolk. I was working both ends (UC) and it was an interesting time to say the least.
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On a scale of 1 to 10...how would you rate the pucker factor for that encounter? :p
 
FLymon said:
I watch it every week. I missed the first few episodes of season 1, but have seen them all since.
I just wish Jax would hurry up and cap Clay. That story line is getting pretty stale.
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I saw the first season on DVD.

The writers and producers have stated that the plot is loosely based upon MacBeth.

It is amusing and entertaining, but isn't particularly accurate.
 
morrowj_98 said:
On a scale of 1 to 10...how would you rate the pucker factor for that encounter? :p
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Jason, it was an eye opener for sure but I was young and dumb and it was my earliest experience and how I got my foot in the door with federal law enforcement. (You ever wonder why they send young men to war? Now that I'm 57 I often think back and shake my head at the things I once did without a second thought. I think blind luck and providence sometimes take pity on the overzealous.)

Honestly, I think that I thought of it as a big game until I found out the bad guys knew where I lived. (Where I really lived.) And then I realized that it wasn't a game after all. (Though nothing unpleasant resulted from that breach.)
 
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This show is outstanding. I can't exactly say that I relate to any of the characters, but the story development and the interpersonal dynamics keep me glued to the edge of my seat.
 
Blues said:
Jason, it was an eye opener for sure but I was young and dumb and it was my earliest experience and how I got my foot in the door with federal law enforcement. (You ever wonder why they send young men to war? Now that I'm 57 I often think back and shake my head at the things I once did without a second thought. I think blind luck and providence sometimes take pity on the overzealous.)

Honestly, I think that I thought of it as a big game until I found out the bad guys knew where I lived. (Where I really lived.) And then I realized that it wasn't a game after all. (Though nothing unpleasant resulted from that breach.)
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It can be entertaining to to watch the exploits of criminals (real and imagined) on the idiot box, and even get to "like" the characters. It's important to keep in mind that while some of us read about it, or watch it on the screen, others are putting there lives (and the lives of their families in some cases), on the line to try to keep the real life villains in check.

So Elliott, my hat is off to you sir. Thank you.
 
FLymon said:
It can be entertaining to to watch the exploits of criminals (real and imagined) on the idiot box, and even get to "like" the characters. It's important to keep in mind that while some of us read about it, or watch it on the screen, others are putting there lives (and the lives of their families in some cases), on the line to try to keep the real life villains in check.

So Elliott, my hat is off to you sir. Thank you.
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Thank you, I appreciate the kind words.

Funny thing is that when you work UC there is a sort of "Stockholm Syndrome" that occurs (at least it did for me). Even though I knew what the object of the investigation was and kept my mind and focus on what needed to be done, I couldn't help somewhat liking and relating to those I was interacting with. (Sometimes liking them better on a personality level than the guys I worked with. Perhaps it's just a "survival" mechanism to help you get through.)

Of course, during the subsequent trials I was disabused quickly of any such notions. :(
 
It seems that Blues own words tell me whether he wants to or not that he was a good spy.

Good spies sometimes need to see a shrink after debriefing although I have absolutely no experience in this area but I can figure that if you do not become one of them you will be discovered and after it is over there is a sort tearing away that has to be mended if it can.

Is my guess right?
 
greater said:
It seems that Blues own words tell me whether he wants to or not that he was a good spy.

Good spies sometimes need to see a shrink after debriefing although I have absolutely no experience in this area but I can figure that if you do not become one of them you will be discovered and after it is over there is a sort tearing away that has to be mended if it can.

Is my guess right?
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Well, I never saw a shrink and interestingly was never asked by my agency.
In fact, the first time I actually spoke to one (in reference to UC work) was at the federal academy in GA a few years later during a two week long undercover ops seminar.

The psychologist worked for the FBI and in a classroom setting he was laying out all these parameters and guidelines reference UC work. I didn't want to give him a hard time in the classroom but afterward asked him if he really felt that his profiling and the subsequent training offered to agents by their respective agencies could really produce effective UC agents.

I got him to admit (if only perhaps to placate me) that a good UC has it in him and has certain characteristics that no "tests" or amount of training could single out or create absent the proper mindset.

Anyway, getting back to your premise...I think it is absolutely true that unless you feel and act like you are one of them, you will be found out sooner than later. That means you sometimes have to say (and perhaps do) things that can be borderline when you get to the trial phase.

And probably, now that you've got me thinking about it, I could've used some counseling after the op was over with since I did feel "guilt" for some time for feeling "close" to some of the targets and for testifying against them in open court. Strange that one would feel like a rat under those circumstances. I think that nowadays it is more a matter of routine to offer these services to police and agents doing these assignments.

Funny, but I never thought of myself as a "spy" before but I guess that's kind of true come to think of it.
 
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SoA and Breaking Bad are about the only fictional tv shows I watch now. I only wish they had gone to something like HBO so they could be more graphic and without commercial interuption.
 
Is it just me or is everyone on shows like Sons of Anarchy and others whispering way too much now?:confused:

Kinda annoying....
 
Grew up around the biker lifestyle in the 80s, friends with few gangs here on the East Coast, still friends with many of the ones who have managed to stay outta prison or coffins, they all watch the show and laugh at the portrayal but enjoy the show anyway. Like my Buddy from *** ***** says it's only television makin' the everyday life of the biker culture seem interesting.

I belong to no Club but I've met some of the nicest people in Clubs but also have met some of the most evil people, in the end they're just people who hang together.

The Club don't make 'em bad, that they're born with, hell I know evil Plumbers. :)
 
I just started watching it, and its pretty good. I like it.
 
Blues said:
Funny thing is that when you work UC there is a sort of "Stockholm Syndrome" that occurs (at least it did for me). Even though I knew what the object of the investigation was and kept my mind and focus on what needed to be done, I couldn't help somewhat liking and relating to those I was interacting with. (Sometimes liking them better on a personality level than the guys I worked with. Perhaps it's just a "survival" mechanism to help you get through.)
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William Queen, in his capacity as UC ATF, got a full patch and rode with a club for a couple of years and he said much the same thing. He genuinely liked some of the people he was investigating, and felt more of a connection with them than with the suits back at the office.

1%er clubs are a closed society. It is difficult to earn these peoples' trust and respect. And once you're accepted you'll probably realize that they are much different from the way they're depicted in the textbooks and seminars. And that is why you get the "Stockholm Syndrome" -- which is just some suit's way of making you feel guilty for liking people who aren't as evil as they want everyone to believe.

Yeah, there are some evil people in the clubs -- but I've met evil cops, evil doctors, evil schoolteachers, and even evil ministers. Most of them are decent folks for the most part. None of the guys I knew cooked meth, stole motorcycles, or prostituted their wives like the media would have us believe.
 
Love the show even though it isn't true to life. If you want to see what really happens, watch Gangland or read a book. I think if the show was spot on with actual gangs, it wouldn't be as entertaining for which it is intended. It is like anything else with movies though, they make a lot of things look great, but in actuality aren't all that great.
 
powernoodle said:
Sons of Anarchy should have no place on a regular cable tv lineup. It showed simulated sex, and a guy's bare butt grinding up and down on some skank. I turned it off.

HBO and Showtime are one thing, because you don't have to pay for them if you don't want them. But I should be able to scan through the channels without seeing that. Some of us have kids at home, and we should not have to hide our tv's from them.

Ever so slowly, the world is Slouching Towards Gomorrah, and no one seems willing to stop it.

I even have to pay twice as much as a Gold Membership here at BF just so I don't have to see the porn.

I guess that I could cut the cable and unplug the computer, but I should not have to.
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Dude, you have 50 cent as your avatar. Have you listened to him lately?:confused:
 
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