sound deadening board or ????

[NickWheeler]

I put an offer in on a house/shop about two weeks ago and to help ease my excitement/anxiety while I wait to hear back from the bank I've been trying to plan some things out (knock on wood!!! ).

The shop is 36X48 and has a few interior walls already as it has a complete "mother-in-law" apartment in it. At first I thought that was going to mean tearing things out, but after seeing it realized that it means it already has separate/dedicated rooms i.e. hot-work area, machining area, hand-work, etc.

The front 20X36 was kept as a garage area, and has been wire, insulated, and walls/ceiling are all sheathed with OSB. This seems like the obvious hot-work shop to me (it will feel foreign as that's 1/2 again bigger than my entire current shop ). Since the parcels in the area are only 1 acre versus the 5-10 acre properties we had been looking at, I am thinking that putting in some kind of sound deadening board in the hot work shop would be a good idea. I had already looked at some stuff at HD and Lowes just out of curiosity, and then Mike Turner mentioned the idea to me as well.

This idea doesn't have the same ring as "good fences make good neighbors" but I think it might be even more important in this case. Especially since I like to be in the shop from about 7am to midnight. I'm going to finally have room for the 50# and 100# Little Giants, which aren't exactly quiet.... and of course there's the press, anvil, chop saw, angle grinders, etc.

So do any of you have any experience with sound deadening board or some other possible ideas???

Thanks!

 

[1066vik]

fiberglass batting in the walls is a good thing.
since you already have OSB on the walls that may not be practical - 5/8" drywall over 3/4" foam is a decent sound deadener, so is 3/8" pile carpet -- but carpet is not so fire resistant. Acoustic ceiling tile screwed to the wall might work and shouldn't break the bank.
I would test out the soundproofing by putting a radio in the space with the volume turned way up, go outside and close all the doors to see how much noise escapes.

good luck.

 

[Salem Straub]

I'd think you're probably looking in the right direction with sound deadening board. I wish I could tell you more about it. I just stopped in to wish you good luck on the deal. I know it'll be fantastic for you to have such an upgrade in shop space, and to be able to bring the hammers in and use them. Here's hopin'.

Also, I recall in "The craft of the Japanese Sword" it mentioned that since Yoshindo lives in the Tokyo city limits, out of respect to his neighbors he only runs the hammer during the day. I'd think that would be reasonable, if you couldn't totally cut the sound back.

So, does the mother-in-law at least rate a futon under the finishing bench?

 

[tedinatl]

There is a construction technique that is used in apartment/shared wall construction, in which you basically use a 2 x 6 as the floor plate, and then align alternate joists to either end as you build the wall (don't really know how to explain it well, but I can draw a sketch later and attach it). In essence you're making a "thicker" wall. You can then add sound reducing drywall on top of it. Add some insulation before you hang the drywall. This of course requires a fair amount of construction, but I've found that it works the best.

There are a number of other products out there that can also help - paint that turns noise into heat, etc., but they're all very pricey.

 

[Don Hanson III]

Same size as my shop, but the closed off 20' is my clean side, hot area is 36'x28'

The insulated walls/ceiling is really all that's needed. See, I just saved ya money.

 

[Daniel Fairly Knives]

There is a construction technique that is used in apartment/shared wall construction, in which you basically use a 2 x 6 as the floor plate, and then align alternate joists to either end as you build the wall (don't really know how to explain it well, but I can draw a sketch later and attach it). In essence you're making a "thicker" wall. You can then add sound reducing drywall on top of it. Add some insulation before you hang the drywall. This of course requires a fair amount of construction, but I've found that it works the best.

There are a number of other products out there that can also help - paint that turns noise into heat, etc., but they're all very pricey.

That is a good way to do it, you weave the insulation between the offset 2x4's.

I've never used the board you speak of but it looks great, sounds like your best option. As a drummer and guitar player I have done lots of things to reduce sound, it's tough to overcome loud noise.

Check out books on building home recording studios, I used to have one with different budgets for sound reduction and what to do from making a room quieter to building a turnkey room that is silent outside.

On a side note, I got to check out the studio Pantera recorded their first album in... 1+ foot thick vault doors!

One thing is that muffling sound doesn't work as well as seperating the vibrations from the outside if that makes sense.

 

[james terrio]

Check out books on building home recording studios... One thing is that muffling sound doesn't work as well as seperating the vibrations from the outside if that makes sense.

Bingo! With all due respect to the builders among us, acoustic tile and all those ideas are designed for crying babies. Not 100# hammers.

I spent a lot of time fending off irritated neighbors and bored cops in my garage band days. The biggest "offenders" by far are the bass amps and drums; it's the low frequencies that really get the place vibrating and that sort of sound carries a lot further than a guitar or voice at the same decibel level.

Think of the evil thoughts you had last time some moron with a 1000w kicker and 2 18" subs in his trunk woke you up from a quarter-mile away... now think of your next-door neighbor trying to take a nap while you forge away on a nice damascus billet. No Welcome Wagon fruit baskets for you, pretty boy!

Can the Little Giants be isolated somehow? Like set in something like a bed of compacted sand, or on a thick pad of heavy rubber instead of just sitting on the concrete slab? That kind of thumping will resonate the whole building and insulation alone won't do much for that. Windows are a big no-no. Glass or even plex acts like the soundboard on an acoustic guitar. Anything you can do to dampen them and keep them from transmitting those frequencies will help. Forget carpet scraps and eggshell cartons , despite what you may read/be told they don't do much at all. I'm thinking welding blankets taped right to the glass. Fire-resistant, easy to pull back when you want the light. :thumbup:

EDIT: what about the door? You mentioned it was a garage area; if it has a typical hollow metal door that's going to be an issue... basically a 100-square-foot resonator right there. Maybe it could be pumped full of foam or at least "faced" on the inside with pink insulating board. Again, the idea is to deaden the vibrations.

 

[Daniel Fairly Knives]

James,
Lol at the band stuff, I've been yelled at a lot over the years. The best one was when our neighbor came over to yell at us. She didn't even knock, just barged in the house, typical band scene... junk and cables everywhere, she falls over a bunch of gear, blames us and then starts telling our bass player how bad our bass player is and how since he is the singer (wearing his bass) he should fire the bass player... at this point we are cracking up and also making fun of her Rush t-shirt (Rush rocks but it was funny) ... we have never even met this lady! She tells us we need to try to do something about the sound and we tell her to look around... we have literally covered every wall and door with mattresses, the ceiling was covered with sleeping bags and egg crates, hallway mattressed off... junk couches all around my drums, two high in the back, lmao. She stared for a while, apologized and then left. lol..

 

[james terrio]

The best one was when our neighbor came over to yell at us...

What's even worse is when they help themselves to your beer and ummm... other things and proceed to explain how "you guys sound OK but you should play more popular dancey stuff, y'know like madonna or something... can you rap? That would be really cool!" Don't even get me started on singers' girlfriends...

 

[deker]

Take a look at the insulating wool made from blast furnace slag. They call it "Rock Wool" or "Mineral Wool". It's like fiberglass batting, but insulates sound better, and is good to 2100F or so. Seems a natural for the hot shop!

Congrats on the prospective new place! Here's hoping your offer is accepted!

-d

 

[RayseM]

Here is IMO the easiest & the most effective product out there: http://www.roxul.com/stone+wool/sound-absorbent

Would require framing a new wall, some rewiring etc. but would be a first rate job with the added benefit of making your "hot" room even easier to keep warm or cool.

...and so it begins Have fun.

 

[lonepine]

In my previous life (before retirement) I did audio and TV production. We had a nice TV studio and an audio recording booth. The wall treatment is only half the battle to control sound. The other half are the doors. If the doors don't deaden sound and equally as important, seal off the room, noise will get into or out of the room. So if you plan to open the doors and windows to your hot-work shop you will be negating a lot of the other sound deadening efforts, except maybe for the interior of your own house. Non-reflective surfaces such as special acoustic foams, carpeting, thick drapes, etc only reduce the amount of echo in a room. It can't reach out and "suck up" the sound. To control noise you have to contain it.

To sound proof TV studios they use cement block construction for the walls and fill the cavities with DRY sand. Not real helpful in this case. I've heard that cellulose insulation blown into the walls significantly deadens sound in residential construction.

- Paul Meske, Wisconsin

 

[Will Leavitt]

From car stereo shop and my time working in bars.... it's also the amplitude of bass frequencies. In both the stereo shop and bar we were getting noise complaints from people further away from the source than non-complainers. One of the guys in the stereo shop was an EE student and he calculated the distance and the amplitude wave coming from the stereo shop. Apparently these people lived where the wave hit or something like that.... hell I'm dunno exactly all them fancy words but it made sense at the bar so the cops bought it when we told them we were going to get the band to adjust their bass levels.

 

[J. Hoffman]

The one thing I wonder, is about the Little Giants. I would think that the noise from them would be more "felt" and not "heard". I'm not sure if sound board will take care of those vibrations.

 

[james terrio]

From car stereo shop and my time working in bars.... it's also the amplitude of bass frequencies.

Your example is a good one, but the wording is off. Running sound, you'll often find "dead spots" in a club or bar where everything sounds terrible... take two steps one way or another and it's clear as a bell. Or as you said, 100 feet away you can barely hear the noise from inside the club, but at 80' or 120' (just picking numbers out of the air here) it's much more noticeable. That has to do mainly with the differing wavelengths of various frequencies interfering with one another as they bounce around the room or sail through open air, plus that one 400# drunk that always seems to stand right in front of one of the mains... but I digress. Long wavelengths like those pounding out of a 500w bass amp driving 4 18" speakers do indeed travel far and wide.

Amplitude is the energy of a given sound wave, and yes typically big booming sounds like bass drums and pile-drivers do indeed generate a boat-load of energy that again, travels far and wide. That's why a great bassline will make you crap your pants, and a great guitar solo will just make your ears bleed. So you're at least half right Both wavelength and amplitude play a part in this phenomenon. phenomena? whatever.

What the hell were we talking about again? Oh yeah, power hammers... isolate 'em from the structure of the building. Insulating the walls should at least keep the normal tool noise to a bearable level outside the shop, but I'm not so sure about the thump-thump-thump of a Little Giant. Then again what do I know, I'm just a sparkmaker

 

[Shaughnessy]

Nick,
I will throw this one out to you. We used to use this stuff back in the day for sound deadening. Thin material too. Heres a link.....http://www.dynamat.com/

 

[Will Leavitt]

I remember that stuff.... we lined the store owner's car with it..... his car was terrifying and we used it to abuse rap music "bass" heads with classical music and real bass. We had a CD of Philadelphia Symphony's War of 1812 Overture and they used M1 cannon fire on the recording talk about clipping.

I didn't know much about the sound part of it, I built boxes and door enclosures basically a simple cabinet maker.

 

[A C Richards]

I have had a shop in 2 neighborhoods. The first was on a 1/2 acre parcel in town. Houses 15 feet apart but deep lots. I talked to my neighbors about what I was doing and told them if it ever bothered them to call or come over and I would stop. I would not start the forging until 9:00 or 10:00 am and quit nlt 5:00 pm and usually by 4. The other tools in the garage did not make enough noise, well the die grinders and chop saw were loud. I just did not do any loud work after 6 pm. Lots of hand sanding and finishing. Were I live now is 1.5 acres and my neighbors are a little further away. Before I even moved in I talked with them and invited them over to watch sometime. I have asked if I was bothering them and they did not even seem to notice I was working. I still do not start the noisy work until well after 9 and keep it quiet after 6. Usually I have to be inside to keep momma happy by then anyway. I really think if you talk to the neighbors you will be able to tell if you need to take more of an aggressive sound deadening action. Since you will not be hammering every single day, at least I don't, the hammers are not that bad. The press and chop saw is not much louder than a table saw. Congratulations on the possibility of buying a house though. Hope it all goes through.

 

[Matthew Gregory]

Nick, the thought of the cops showing up to bust you for violation of noise ordinances only to find you greased down in a speedo jamming out to Right Said Fred and frolicking about the shop is likely enough for the neighbors to stop complaining and start really worrying.

...as you were, Wheeler...

 

[Sam Salvati]

Nick, the thought of the cops showing up to bust you for violation of noise ordinances only to find you greased down in a speedo jamming out to Right Said Fred and frolicking about the shop is likely enough for the neighbors to stop complaining and start really worrying.

...as you were, Wheeler...

quoted for truth