Southard (and others) washer / bearing upgrade kit

This is the folding knife sales by individuals section. A knikemaker/craftsman can sell in here, but only production knives selling as secondhand.

As a Craftsman selling "Gadgets" (as they would be classified), you should have this listed in the Knifemaker>Gadgets & Gear section.
I petitioned a Mod to move this thread for you.

That being said, it is nice to see some new products that offer knife owners some variety and even potentially a repair for some factory made parts that are not up to standard.

Welcome aboard, good luck.
 
Thanks Bill. I reached out to the mods before posting this to get permission. However, if they see fit to move it then I of course totally understand. FYI I don’t have a storefront nor plan to come out with any other kits or products.
 
therealPlatonicForms therealPlatonicForms

Based on your post, I micd my Southard. The scales are about .003” closer together in front of the pivot relative to behind the last standoff. Even though it’s running great, as you know I’ve been considering a kit as an insurance measure (I love the knife!). I’m strongly of the opinion that washer dishing is not solely due to owner error.

I have some technical questions about your washers. Would you prefer an email to discuss? I don’t want you to feel pressured to reveal trade secrets or anything like that. ;)

Welcome to the forum! I’m glad you posted this stuff over here!
 
BD_01 BD_01

Yes sir, ask away! My goal here is not really to keep any info in my pocket. The more it's discussed the better

.003 may not seem like much, but it is in my opinion a major contributor to the washer issues. I'll also add that your measurement may not be totally accurate; if your washers are dishing out that will effect the distance. Most Southards seem to be .005-.013 too thin at the pivot. FYI - when I say I mic'd out my Southard, I mean literally everything. I basically "backed into" the washer size... Measuring the depth of the bearing pocket, the thickness of the blade stock at the pivot, the height of the standoffs.. All down to a tenth of a thou. I took those measurements and said OK what thickness washer would be best? And it ended up being literally twice as thick as what came in my knife.

When I started on this entire thing I focused primarily on the washers, and getting the best fit regarding the distance between the scales at the pivot. However, I discovered that the bearing as an impact as well. In the Southards I've seen, the bearings have a lot of friction inside the race.

So, you have a non-square pocket which requires the pivot to be too tight to remove blade play. Then that tightness and uneven pressure from the bearing pockets, combined with that (as far as I can tell) the stock washers are not hardened, AND that the bearings are stiff in the cage, all increases the propensity for the washers to dish out or tear.
 
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Interesting.

I just checked my NIB backup Southard (born April 2014) and it’s micing pretty much equal at both ends. Makes me wonder how much is manufacturing tolerance and how much is use and wear.

Now I’ve got to wait until pay-day & figure out whether I’ll try one kit or two....never been good at decisions...or waiting. ;)

ETA: Wow! .013” is way out.
 
This is really cool and interesting, it's amazing how the community can improve upon our favorite knives.

I sold my southard (regrettably) partially due to my dissatisfaction with the flipping action. I plan on getting another one at some point, and i will definitely pick up one of these kits.
 
BD_01 BD_01

Yep. Some are perfect. Out of ~15 Southards I've either checked myself or had people check, 2 were within .002 front to back (including your backup!). I've seen one that had seemingly different washers than the ones we usually see. There was another one who had washers epoxied in (that one had an unknown history with a bunch of mods, so it definitely could've been from a previous owner).

Personally, and obviously I am biased here, but I believe that even a perfect Southard will likely dish out its washers over time. Both due to the overly stiff factory bearing cages and that the factory washers don't seem to be hardened. I have sanded/polished my washers down to exact same thickness as factory Southard washers and mine are far stiffer/harder, more difficult to scratch with a hardened pick, etc
 
Alright folks, some updates.. It is looking like the kit will fit the Dominos as well. I have a couple of guys who are running it in their Domino and are very happy, and a gentleman named DeadPlayerWalking has mic’d out their Domino and confirmed it uses the exact same washers/bearings as the Southard.

As always, if you buy the kit and it doesn’t fit your knife you can return it to me for a full refund. Im still looking for someone with a Mantra and Nirvana who has digital calipers and can mic out some tolerances for me. $10 discount on a kit for anyone able to help with this

I now have detent balls, both ceramic and ultra hard SS. At the moment they are free with a kit purchase but by request only. Once I run out I will not be ordering any more. They are VERY fiddly to install correctly without a press and punch. I used a c clamp to get an idea of what the regular user is dealing with and it was not fun. However they do fit well and seem to make a difference. My factory detent ball wasn’t flattened and I still noticed a difference in smoothness. Not as much as the bearings/washers, maybe 10-20% smoother, but noticeable.
 
Any word on whether this will fit an Advocate?
 
palonej palonej NJBillK NJBillK

Do either of you guys have a Southard or Domino that you can compare bearings/washers to? You can buy a micrometer from amazon for $13, they're really useful tools aside from this application. Then get the $10 discount for measuring bearings so you'd end up with a digital micrometer for a couple bucks.....
 
A bump for this thread:
I finally got around to ordering a kit yesterday. The instruction video is very clear and well done.

My Southard is still working fine after two years, so I hopefully wont be changing anything out in the immediate future. The kit is going with the rest of my knife stuff as a little insurance policy. (I have two more Southards in there too). ;) I absolutely love the knife.
 
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