Southard flipper action disappointing

Don't despair Brendtech189 I may have compromised my Spyderco Southard when I modified the scale with my own Teak version - put it back together not quite right. If I had l left it alone…:)

Thanks for the drawing josephrogers -That's what I did after all and I'm in good shape now.
 
One of my adult sons has one, and I do, too. His flips extremely well. Mine basically doesn't flip at all, and can't be flipped to lockup. I've tried lots of different oils (and cleaning oil out of the pivot area) and adjusting the pivot tension - nothing has made it work well. I should send it in, but you know how that goes.
 
Just my .02, my Southard flips like a beast. I only have about 7 flippers or so in my collection,and a couple that are way more expensive than the Southard,but none flip better.I was kind of wondering how a Southard AVO would flip in comparison, but then I'm thinking why,this spdy flips so awesome.Of course being a knife nut,I came to my senses and the AVO will be here this coming Monday.
I was just really surprised to see this thread, because of how great the action is on mine,and my two buddies that are fellow nuts, also feel that it has just awesome flipping action.
 
I had an AVO and it couldn't hold a candle to my Southard. I sold it almost instantly. I am on the list for Brad's next, bigger, version of the AVO and that one has better bearings or so damn thing :). But back to the Southard. I started thinking and on mine I have a really nice carbon fiber scale and scale piece on the back, oh what the heck is it called... well anyways, I started thinking and came to the conclusion that maybe mine flips so well as it is considerably liter than a stock Southard. I have owned at least one knife from almost every custom maker at one point of time and my Southard really flips better than at least 75% of them or so.
It actually flips way faster than the two Dominos that I have owned. Even though my first one flipped like a dream.
I wish I had more input as to why mine flipped so well but all I can figure is that possibly the lack of weight has something to do with it. Plus, I put a low rider clip on that is really killer and does not look like a spoon as there are a number of those going around. I am super happy how my Southard turned out and I wish that everyone had the same results. But that is how flippers are. For example. I had a McGinnis mini-vicarious from blade 2014 and it flipped so fast I literally nicked the inside of my hand as I could not get it out of the way before the blade got there which has NEVER happened to me before. I mean it was insane. Well...like an idiot I sold it only to buy another one, exactly the same, from the same batch, blade 2014 and it seemed so sluggish it was like a totally different knife. I know that a lot of it has to do with detent and the setting and all of that but these were on washers, as all of Gerry's customs are so I have no idea how one could have been so much faster than the other. But this time the first one was solid Ti scales and was fast and the second one was LSCF and was slow.
So I guess my point is that I have no point, LoL. I can't make hide nor hair of anything and it all totally confuses the hell outta me. I have never owned an original Southard, only the black blade versions and so far I am 2 for 2 on those with my current one staying put for a long time to come as for the money there simply is no other knife that flips as fast, consistently, and looks totally badass with the c.f. scale and lowrider clip that I put on it. The Domino is a close second but the blade shape on the Southard will always win out IMO.
 
I've had probably a couple dozen southards pass through my hands including a few black versions. The black ones are MUCH faster and snappier flippers in my experience. I'm guessing the added thickness of the coating makes for an effectively deeper detent hole.

A deeper detent hole means more force is required to overcome the detent which makes for a more powerful opening. Not necessarily better, but faster for sure. Personally I prefer the smoother and slightly slower opening of the standard model. Less wear and tear on the knife long term.
 
I got my Southard early on. It flips so well, it almost feels as though it s assisted. Very impressive knife.
 
I have a new Black Southard on the way. Dealer said she was centered too! I've got two Brown Southard flippers. Both flip well enough. I'm pretty excited about the Black one. So far, nothing comes close to flipping as nice and easily as my Dominos.
 
Brendtech189 said:
I had an AVO and it couldn't hold a candle to my Southard. I sold it almost instantly. I am on the list for Brad's next, bigger, version of the AVO and that one has better bearings or so damn thing :). But back to the Southard. I started thinking and on mine I have a really nice carbon fiber scale and scale piece on the back, oh what the heck is it called... well anyways, I started thinking and came to the conclusion that maybe mine flips so well as it is considerably liter than a stock Southard. I have owned at least one knife from almost every custom maker at one point of time and my Southard really flips better than at least 75% of them or so.
It actually flips way faster than the two Dominos that I have owned. Even though my first one flipped like a dream.
I wish I had more input as to why mine flipped so well but all I can figure is that possibly the lack of weight has something to do with it. Plus, I put a low rider clip on that is really killer and does not look like a spoon as there are a number of those going around. I am super happy how my Southard turned out and I wish that everyone had the same results. But that is how flippers are. For example. I had a McGinnis mini-vicarious from blade 2014 and it flipped so fast I literally nicked the inside of my hand as I could not get it out of the way before the blade got there which has NEVER happened to me before. I mean it was insane. Well...like an idiot I sold it only to buy another one, exactly the same, from the same batch, blade 2014 and it seemed so sluggish it was like a totally different knife. I know that a lot of it has to do with detent and the setting and all of that but these were on washers, as all of Gerry's customs are so I have no idea how one could have been so much faster than the other. But this time the first one was solid Ti scales and was fast and the second one was LSCF and was slow.
So I guess my point is that I have no point, LoL. I can't make hide nor hair of anything and it all totally confuses the hell outta me. I have never owned an original Southard, only the black blade versions and so far I am 2 for 2 on those with my current one staying put for a long time to come as for the money there simply is no other knife that flips as fast, consistently, and looks totally badass with the c.f. scale and lowrider clip that I put on it. The Domino is a close second but the blade shape on the Southard will always win out IMO.
Click to expand...



Ever try decaf? Lol, kidding...

The lighter scale or pocket clip wouldn't make any difference in flipping speed since that is static weight...

Something else to consider that may effect flipping reaction/speed/consistency is the grip on the lock bar. Doesn't have a huge effect, but I know it changes things when I try different grips and pressures on mine...
 
SpeedHoles said:
Ever try decaf? Lol, kidding...

The lighter scale or pocket clip wouldn't make any difference in flipping speed since that is static weight...

Something else to consider that may effect flipping reaction/speed/consistency is the grip on the lock bar. Doesn't have a huge effect, but I know it changes things when I try different grips and pressures on mine...
Click to expand...

I have found that also to be true. Another keen observation! Right on!

In addition, I bought several deep carry ti clip from a member here on BF. On the Domino, clip tip rested on the RIL and it also had a negative effect.
 
I previously mentioned that my "black bladed" Southard flipped as well as many customs that I have had. I put a carbon fiber scale on it so manybe the little bit of weight made a difference? I know that is a stretch but damn I wish everyone's flipped like mine. I bought it second hand too!
 
I just opened my black Southard up and put a dab of lithium grease on the bearings, she's even smoother opening, now.
 
RayseM said:
HELP please :confused:

I really do love my Spyderco Southard - the looks, the blade, the ease of carry but the deployment with the flipper :thumbdn:

Seemed to work better when I first bought (off the exchange) but now I seem to need to add a bit of wrist action to really get the click that it is open. If I just casually (mindlessly) flip it won't open all the way - maybe 80%. If I pay attention and really flip my finger no problem but that kind of defeats the knife for me as an EDC.

The centering and lock up is perfect. I did replace the scale (the brown version) with my own and maybe there is the rub (literally). Though at the beginning there was no compromise. I was able to get the tension on the pivot just right but several months later I am getting tired of the added wrist flip needed. I opened all and cleaned today. Everything looks good.

Maybe I am not putting it back together properly. That concave washer that fits over the bearing - is the cone side supposed to face the bearing or the scale? Is there a special orientation of the bearing?

Any suggestions? A special lubricant needed?

Thanks much, Ray
Click to expand...


Try a little squirt of Breakfree CLP on the pivot.

http://www.thegunzone.com/rust.html
 
Maybe the way you are flipping it might be the problem..
I've had about 8 Southards now, and they were all really fast flippers. However, I "push button" my flippers.
In other words, I push the flipper tab into the handle, not along the handle (light switching).
I have had domino's as well, and they are more of a light switch flipper.

I say you should try just a tiny bit of oil on the detent path, and try push buttoning the flipper (if you aren't already.)

The only other thing I can think of would be that the detent ball isn't far enough into the blade to allow for a strong detent/break away.
 
bb6tuner said:
Maybe the way you are flipping it might be the problem..
I've had about 8 Southards now, and they were all really fast flippers. However, I "push button" my flippers.
In other words, I push the flipper tab into the handle, not along the handle (light switching).
I have had domino's as well, and they are more of a light switch flipper.

I say you should try just a tiny bit of oil on the detent path, and try push buttoning the flipper (if you aren't already.)

The only other thing I can think of would be that the detent ball isn't far enough into the blade to allow for a strong detent/break away.
Click to expand...

I agree with what you say. That's how I flip my Southard's as well. I also find my Dominos flip as you describe. Those Dominos are magnificent flippers imo.
 
bb6tuner said:
Maybe the way you are flipping it might be the problem..
I've had about 8 Southards now, and they were all really fast flippers. However, I "push button" my flippers.
In other words, I push the flipper tab into the handle, not along the handle (light switching).
I have had domino's as well, and they are more of a light switch flipper.

I say you should try just a tiny bit of oil on the detent path, and try push buttoning the flipper (if you aren't already.)

The only other thing I can think of would be that the detent ball isn't far enough into the blade to allow for a strong detent/break away.
Click to expand...

No - I flip just as you describe - in line and with authority. Best action is if the knife is kept pointing down. If I raise my hand to horizontal I need to add a bit of wrist action to get the click. I have lubed lightly but still doesn't help much to overcome gravity. I just need to deploy the blade with my arm down - not a big deal. I did have a Domino that I could open flip from any position smooth and easy. The Southard is more fussy.
 
RayseM said:
No - I flip just as you describe - in line and with authority. Best action is if the knife is kept pointing down. If I raise my hand to horizontal I need to add a bit of wrist action to get the click. I have lubed lightly but still doesn't help much to overcome gravity. I just need to deploy the blade with my arm down - not a big deal. I did have a Domino that I could open flip from any position smooth and easy. The Southard is more fussy.
Click to expand...
The Southard sure can be fussy. No doubt.
 
spketch said:
I've had probably a couple dozen southards pass through my hands including a few black versions. The black ones are MUCH faster and snappier flippers in my experience. I'm guessing the added thickness of the coating makes for an effectively deeper detent hole.

A deeper detent hole means more force is required to overcome the detent which makes for a more powerful opening. Not necessarily better, but faster for sure. Personally I prefer the smoother and slightly slower opening of the standard model. Less wear and tear on the knife long term.
Click to expand...


This is an incredibly interesting thread to me, I created an account to reply to this post.

I found this post while doing research for a Southard bearing/washer upgrade kit that I have developed. I have come to the conclusion after mic'ing out numerous silver/tan southards that the washers are in fact too thin. It's surprising as they're only off by a few thousands of an inch, but that's enough to cause some real problems with them. Basically with the factory washers the pivot end of the knife is squished in. This creates a non-square bearing pocket. So you either have some blade play and centering issues, or tighten it down enough to center everything but the bearing pocket is not square with the blade surface. These too-thin washers then dish out, both from being so thin (and likely not hardened) and due to the slightly non parallel pinched bearing pockets.

This isn't always evident when the knife is new, as the washers dish out over time. It's possible to have a perfectly-centered good flipping southard when new out of the box (or newly returned from spyderco service), but after a few hundred openings is when the problems develop.

I bet that the black coating is enough to make up for some of the washer thickness, enough to square things up just a bit, which is why these black southards flip better.

Does anyone know if the bearing pocket (inside part of of the scales) is coated as well, or just the blade? I've tried to find pics of a disassembled black southard without any luck.
 
Mine certainly dished out - and reversing them every now and again was of no help.
Welcome to BF - good 1st post. Will stay tuned to read more from those with black Southards.

Ray
 
RayseM said:
HELP please :confused:

I really do love my Spyderco Southard - the looks, the blade, the ease of carry but the deployment with the flipper :thumb dn:

Seemed to work better when I first bought (off the exchange) but now I seem to need to add a bit of wrist action to really get the click that it is open. If I just casually (mindlessly) flip it won't open all the way - maybe 80%. If I pay attention and really flip my finger no problem but that kind of defeats the knife for me as an EDC.

The centering and lock up is perfect. I did replace the scale (the brown version) with my own and maybe there is the rub (literally). Though at the beginning there was no compromise. I was able to get the tension on the pivot just right but several months later I am getting tired of the added wrist flip needed. I opened all and cleaned today. Everything looks good.

Maybe I am not putting it back together properly. That concave washer that fits over the bearing - is the cone side supposed to face the bearing or the scale? Is there a special orientation of the bearing?

Any suggestions? A special lubricant needed?

Thanks much, Ray
Click to expand...
All their flippers have an inherent problem that became most problematic in the Advocate. The knife has a thin washer between the bearing and the knife. The logic was that steel directly on Titanium would eventually eat its way into the knife and give it side to side movement. The problem is that the steel washers are too thin and the steel bearing makes a gully in the washer, this is what is wrong with the knife. The problem was so bad with the Advocate that they halted production until they figure out what to do.and I believe that the also allowed people to bring it back to the store for a refund and I guess they would make good to the vendor
Anyway to make a long story longer, send it back for a referb, it will cost you about $20 and it will be as good as new. I have a refurbed Southard that I want to sell with 2 sets of custom scales. I stopped using it right after I got my Domino. Hope all turns out well.
 
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