Spine taping a lock to induce lock failure?

shinyedges said:
A knife designed for self defense, should handle a random shock against the spine. Considering what can happen in a fight is completely unpredictable. I don't see how you could disagree, unless you believe in a fight nothing could happen causing the back of your knife to hit something hard..like the side walk if you ended up on the ground, or any one of a million things.

This pertains specifically to knives designed as weapons.
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I can maybe see your point for a tactical self-defense style knife. The majority of knives are not of that nature though.
Fortunately I live in Arizona, we don't use knives for self defense.
 
Cvrobinson said:
I can maybe see your point for a tactical self-defense style knife. The majority of knives are not of that nature though.
Fortunately I live in Arizona, we don't use knives for self defense.
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We kind of veered to specifically discussing self defense folders. Which in my mind should be held to a higher standard than knives not intended to be a weapon first.

Regular non weapon designed knives should not fail from from moderate tap or knock that were to occur in a confined space for example.

The bar needs to be higher for a knife you have specific tasks in mind that are rough unpredictable events.

The real answer is fixed blade but obviously not an option for legal reasons in many jurisdictions. (Obviously a firearm trumps a knife in most instances, but we're discussing knives)
 
I do not spine whack my folding knives. But that does not mean the manufacturer can skip the testing step of spine whacking a new model before it is released to the market. Same applies to the brake and airbag of any model of cars.

If a knife owner somehow spine whacks his knife and the lock fails, it is NOT the knife owner but the manufacturer that should be blamed. No - I am not talking about hammering the spine; it is 100% reasonable for the owner to tap or whack the spine for the purpose of testing the reliability of the lock. Arguments like "slip joints work fine for many years" "I do not cut with the spine" blah blah are ridiculous. It is just like saying "I do not drive my car into a brick wall to test the reliability of the airbag."

The manufacturer should feel shameful for putting a customer into a position to do the test for itself and even worse the test result turns out to be negative, UNLESS the manufacturer stated it clearly in the first place that the knife can ONLY be used to cut things in absolutely open space with an absolutely relaxed mind set; no marketing craps like tactical, emergency use, self defense, etc etc.
 
45Shooter said:
I've never understood the vitriol against moderate spine whacking to test a lock. Locks were designed in the first place to guard against accidental, unintentional closure of the blade and yes, that can and does happen - including impact against the spine. Locks should lock, period, until intentionally released. A lock that fails against moderate stress is either a faulty design or shoddily manufactured. Either is good to know.
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I don't think the vitriol is against moderate spine whacking. It's against the bonehead YouTubers that put the blade in a vise and smack the handle with a 2X4 and then claim the design is crap.
 
shinyedges said:
A knife designed for self defense, should handle a random shock against the spine. Considering what can happen in a fight is completely unpredictable. I don't see how you could disagree, unless you believe in a fight nothing could happen causing the back of your knife to hit something hard..like the side walk if you ended up on the ground, or any one of a million things.

This pertains specifically to knives designed as weapons.
Click to expand...

You must have misunderstood, I don’t disagree. One of my first posts on this thread was that a knife for self defense requires a lock that can take sudden and intense negative pressure against the spine.

Particularly Karambits or when using reverse edge techniques.
 
Lapedog said:
You must have misunderstood, I don’t disagree. One of my first posts on this thread was that a knife for self defense requires a lock that can take sudden and intense negative pressure against the spine.

Particularly Karambits or when using reverse edge techniques.
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My fault, I did misunderstand.
 
danbot said:
I don't think the vitriol is against moderate spine whacking. It's against the bonehead YouTubers that put the blade in a vise and smack the handle with a 2X4 and then claim the design is crap.
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Idk, when I mentioned the not everything is smash or nothing you were the reasonable one willing to see that. Others not so much.
 
shinyedges said:
Idk, when I mentioned the not everything is smash or nothing you were the reasonable one willing to see that. Others not so much.
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Well I think I know what you mean having a knife slip or something and it hits quite hard against something on its spine. Like working on a car and the wrench slips off a stubborn bolt and causes you to punch yourself in the face! But the more experience you gain, the smarter you tend to work. You anticipate these things and work accordingly, but s**t happens!
 
I'm torn on spine whacking/tapping. On one hand, I find it a non-measure for folding knife performance. Whacking away to try and make something fail again a mechanical feature that is holding it open seems silly.

However, I had a $140 ZT 350 that would slip past the liner lock with very light pressure. Not even a whack required, just light backward pressure at the tip of the knife.

Obviously, that's no good. ZT promptly fixed it by grinding the tang a bit deeper so that the lock bit firmer and it's rock solid. That said, I used the knife hard for over a year before I noticed the defect that very likely was evident from the factory.
 
Wow, talk about fail. Tons of vids showing failure under very light spine tap for almost any knife brand, and not abusive whacking either. I think the guy in the video was attacked by an angry beaver...wait for it.

 
danbot said:
Well I think I know what you mean having a knife slip or something and it hits quite hard against something on its spine. Like working on a car and the wrench slips off a stubborn bolt and causes you to punch yourself in the face! But the more experience you gain, the smarter you tend to work. You anticipate these things and work accordingly, but s**t happens!
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Agreed on all accounts.
 
danbot said:
I don't think the vitriol is against moderate spine whacking. It's against the bonehead YouTubers that put the blade in a vise and smack the handle with a 2X4 and then claim the design is crap.
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You should look at some of the other threads on this subject . There are many who regard spine whacking - even lightly tapping against the palm of the hand - as utterly anathema and anyone who does them as morally deficient idiots who don't know how to use a "tool" properly and as designed.
 
45Shooter said:
You should look at some of the other threads on this subject . There are many who regard spine whacking - even lightly tapping against the palm of the hand - as utterly anathema and anyone who does them as morally deficient idiots who don't know how to use a "tool" properly and as designed.
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Let's be honest, who cares what they think ;), I'll continue to ensure my fingers don't "meat" (like that?) the folding guillotine:cool:
 
45Shooter said:
You should look at some of the other threads on this subject . There are many who regard spine whacking - even lightly tapping against the palm of the hand - as utterly anathema and anyone who does them as morally deficient idiots who don't know how to use a "tool" properly and as designed.
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Well, I stand corrected.
Personally I don't care if someone taps their knife on the spine. It's their knife to do with as they please. I just didn't see the value of such testing, but I don't use a knife in hard to get at confined spaces where it may get banged around as I'm cutting. If thats the sort of cutting you routinely do, then I suppose the spine whack test would make sense for you. For me, I just glove up and try to close the knife by pushing and pulling and side to side up down pressure. If I can't overcome the lock this way, then I am confident that it will safely hold up to my use.
 
I got to examine a folder made by a well regarded custom knife maker that had a weird habit. If you pushed down on top of the blade and released, nothing happened. BUT, if you pushed down a second time, the blade would close every time. Now whacking a blade may not happen but lots of times people push down on the back of the blade while cutting something. The knife was sent back to the maker, and when returned, would still do it. John
 
danbot said:
Well, I stand corrected.
Personally I don't care if someone taps their knife on the spine. It's their knife to do with as they please. I just didn't see the value of such testing, but I don't use a knife in hard to get at confined spaces where it may get banged around as I'm cutting. If thats the sort of cutting you routinely do, then I suppose the spine whack test would make sense for you. For me, I just glove up and try to close the knife by pushing and pulling and side to side up down pressure. If I can't overcome the lock this way, then I am confident that it will safely hold up to my use.
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Or maybe a fixed blade or some sort of cutter could work too.
 
45Shooter said:
You should look at some of the other threads on this subject . There are many who regard spine whacking - even lightly tapping against the palm of the hand - as utterly anathema and anyone who does them as morally deficient idiots who don't know how to use a "tool" properly and as designed.
Click to expand...


I travel to Brazil frequently. When I go I make sure that the knife I carry for self defense can take a spine tap. Also prefer a sticky lock as that insures the lock from slipping.

I think where this discussion looses it focus is when you compare a tactical knife used for self defense vs a utilitarian knife.

For instance, I would not use a sebenza in Brazil to rely on for a life and death situation. But I do love sebenzas and carry here in the US most of the time . Here in the US, you are very unlikely (compared to south America) to need a self defense tool. WHy? ..because it is super dangerous there. Hence there is the need for a knife that won't fold over on you . Much like if you carried a gun that jams every 50-100 rounds. That should not be used for self defense.
 
shinyedges said:
A knife designed for self defense, should handle a random shock against the spine. Considering what can happen in a fight is completely unpredictable. I don't see how you could disagree, unless you believe in a fight nothing could happen causing the back of your knife to hit something hard..like the side walk if you ended up on the ground, or any one of a million things.

This pertains specifically to knives designed as weapons.
Click to expand...


completely agree!
 
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