Sprint profit

KarlMaldensNose

KarlMaldensNose

Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
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Probably been asked before, but WTH...

Are sprint runs profitable for Spyderco? I mean in the immediate financial sense; not considering that doing super cool things like this for their (hard)core demographic will engender brand loyalty and end up "paying off' in the long run. I assume the extra tooling costs would outweigh any appreciable pocket money for Sal and company. I guess the size of the sprint run makes a difference... 1200 D2 Paras would net more than 600 D2 Millies? Just wondering.
 
I'm a Spyder noob, but why is the D2 $30 less than a "regular"? I can't imagine a regular Para being one Ioda nicer than my D2.
 
I doubt it costs a lot extra to do a sprint run on say a handle color change, such as the F/G Manix, or Orange Military. The steel remains the same and those should be fairly profitable, IMO. Changing the steel and handle material would be a lot more expense, but those often cost a good bit more than the standard model. (such as the carbon fiber handled Militaries, with premium steel)
The D-2 steel must have been a bit cheaper because the F/G
Millies were a bit less than the standard Millies, when you could buy them from dealers.
 
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Spyderco operates on fixed margins. The MSRP of the knife reflects the cost of production plus a set profit margin. In a purely financial sense, sprint runs are no more profitable than any other run, and have the potential to be a very expensive blunder if they don't sell. That doesn't include the PITA factor of working with things like ZDP-189 and S90V, both of which wear out tooling at an accelerated rate.

That's why sprint runs tend to have minimal changes from regular production models. Major tooling changes mean major expenses. Trying to recover those expenses with a short run will price it into an extended warehouse stay.

And yes, CPM D2 cost less than CPM S30V, so the MSRP of the D2 Para was a bit lower than the regular model. If they are still available, they have likely been discounted to move them out.
 
Yes they are profitable. A new knife requires investment (tooling, manufacturing procedures, finding suppliers, etc). For a sprint run the initial investment is is complete, bugs worked out of the design, the intial fixed costs have been capitalized, the profit margin should be higher. Sprint runs give new life to an older designs that may be declining in total sales. A short Sprint run can be almost totally snapped up by sypderholics, when the original product has been retired due to lack of sales. Spyderco is just copying the successful strategy of Case, who has been doing it for years.
 
yablanowitz said:
And yes, CPM D2 cost less than CPM S30V, so the MSRP of the D2 Para was a bit lower than the regular model. If they are still available, they have likely been discounted to move them out.
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They should really just make D2 the "standard" steel rather than S30V then :)
 
THG said:
They should really just make D2 the "standard" steel rather than S30V then :)
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If it was a little more corrosion resistant, they might consider it. From what I've seen, it was a pretty major concession from Sal to get anything non-stainless in one of his folders. Considering some of the whining I've seen here over a little surface rust, I can't blame him for not wanting to use anything but stainless.
 
It could be a super duper wiz bang unobtainium steel ,and you would still have some bone head that would complain.;)Is D2 comparable to s30v in edge retention?I am asking because I have never tried it.Is it really all that harder to care for?They used to call me captian corrosive where i used to work. Everything I touched rusted,so i don't know if it would work well for me!:eek:
 
For me, it has slightly better edge holding and withstands unplanned contact with hard surfaces better than S30V. D2 is only about 1% chromium below being classified as stainless, so it is pretty corrosion resistant and requires only minimal care to prevent rust. It does tend to pit rather than just getting surface rust, though. I wouldn't suggest it for very corrosive environments.
 
I like S30V as a standard top quality steel but living in Reno, Nevada, a high desert with 10% to 30% average humidity (when it's not raining), I have not had one single incident of corrosion on any knife I own since I became a knife enthusiast so D2 is just fine with me as well. Even when I sweat for any reason, wiping down my knives sometime within the day has been sufficient.
 
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yablanowitz said:
If it was a little more corrosion resistant, they might consider it. From what I've seen, it was a pretty major concession from Sal to get anything non-stainless in one of his folders. Considering some of the whining I've seen here over a little surface rust, I can't blame him for not wanting to use anything but stainless.
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iirc its the most corrosion resistant of the non-stainless steels used. I've personally never had any issues with corrosion
 
Hi KMN,

We naturally try to make a profit on all of our products. We do have a company and staff to support. The Sprint runs are fitted in periodlically to make some models available to those with interest and the originals are very difficult to get. Ususally Sprints are the result of customer requests. We will change something on the knife to avoid confusion with the earlier model(s). It might be steel, handle material etc.

We try to use the original tooling, although in some cases, some new tooling will need to be created, such as for the new liners in the JD Smith.

It is possible to lose money on a sprint run and I must admit to having done that periodically, but it's never the plan.

sal
 
Spyderco is just copying the successful strategy of Case, who has been doing it for years
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Copying case eh? More like trying to satisfy customer demand. These sprint runs have at times taken us a few years to finally get Spyderco to see it our way and convince them enough of them will sell to not lose money off them.

On the Spyderco website some of these have multiple threads with hundreds to thousands of posts, attempts at petitions etc.

I'm sure it gets tiresome for the staff. They don't delete them when they get too large like another company we know....*cough*.

It figures Good old brownshoe would make it seem like Spyderco is merely copying someone else's business plan. Brownshoe, you are too predictable. Can't you find another way , or better yet place to do this?

Do we again need to to bring up your failed attempt at extorting a discontinued knife from Sal here to bring everyone up to speed on the source of your continued and repeating bitterness?

You're tiresome. Joe
 
Yeah, Spyderco never innovates...:D

Spyderco, Inc. products are covered by one or more of the following patents: D333081, D333251, D337253, D344006, D349837, D353988, D379294, D381060, D382189, D382459, D386664, D387966, D388150, D389389, D389718, D391465, D401129, D402177, D402178, D402524, D403567, D404990, D406038, D411431, D411790, D418383, D419336, D422052, D421378, D422871, D422875, D425391, D427500, D429138, D434631, D435420, D436014, D438443, D422461, D441827, D442460, D444093, D461387, D464551, D468985, DE19837901, DE3041584A1, DE3834295A1, DE49910779, GB2084058, JAP1099467, JAP1101980, JAP999819, JAP999820, JAP2661729, T135171, T92628, T64569, T64645, T75270, T102268, T105780, 171837, 1130567, 4070011, 4231194, 4347665, 4640058, 4776094, 5379492, 5432968, 5580019, 5615484, 5628117, 5689890, 5704129, 5799400, 5884467, 5920935, 5928069, 5983506, 5964036, 6101723, 6125543, 6205667 and 6553672. Other U.S. and foreign patents pending.
 
Case has been doing special runs of existing/old patterns for years. They often have select changes to make them different but the knife and tooling is the same.

Case's newest twist on this marketing strategy is "putting it into the vault."

The marketing strategy only works if the knife company has a customer base of collectors. For spyderco, the collectible base has now grown large enough to make sprint runs a feasible marketing strategy. The petitions from fans are just a sign of this larger collectible base.

This marketing technique is used in other collectible areas, not just for knives, Case has been doing it longer than spyderco.

Per "Do we again need to to bring up your failed attempt at extorting a discontinued knife from Sal here to bring everyone up to speed on the source of your continued and repeating bitterness?" No extortion was done, a knife was offered due to poor customer service and product on the part of spyderco. The offer of the knife was not serious, but my offer to stop commenting on my customer service experieence was serious, and I don't bring up my history. If you wish, I will gladly find the thread so people can read the whole story.
 
Just my opinion.

Mr. Brownshoe has been a member and supporter of our forum for close to 10 years.

I would suggest that most of his posts have been “not positive” about Spyderco, though I have seen him compliment us on a number of occasions.

We have bantered a few times. Banters that have gone on for weeks. Mr. Brownshoe is bright, articulate and knowledgeable. Certainly my equal and probably a lot smarter.

On the extortion issue, there really wasn’t any extortion. On one of our last banters, I was trying to see if I could appease his negative Spyderco fire in some way. I was not being successful. The subject of a knife came up so I made the offer. That was my “check” move. His acceptance of the offer was the “Mate” move.

I knew that in order for me to send him a knife, I would have to know his address. Then his anonymity would be gone. I believe he realize this and backed off on the “deal” for me to send a knife, but he's kept his part of the bargain. His compliment to me was his way of saying “good game”.

It surprised me that others emailed me to get his address. Of course I would have sent him the knife. And of course I would not have shared his address without his permission. I do have my own standards and a man is only as good as his honor.

If he lived in Golden, we would probably enjoy arguing over a beer.

I value and respect Mr. Brownshoe’s opinions, though I often do not agree with him. His point of view is important.

While there are Spyderco fans that visit (me included), it is a forum. I would prefer that “my” forums be transparent, civil and honest. I can speak on any level from “this is how you open the knife with one hand” to “Evolution IS intelligent design”.

Here, we talk knives, sharp pointy things that for some strange reason some of us are attracted to. (Which could be another heavy discussion). And also for some strange reason, some of us are attracted to Spyderco knives, including Mr. Brownshoe.

sal
 
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