Sprint runs!

CrimsonTideShooter said:
Exactly. I think spyderco could bump up the turn out to around 2000 and they would sell just as fast. If there were more made they would still be very exclusive, but it would discourage the speculators in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Spyderco's been on a roll lately but many sprints don't sell well and get closed out a huge discounts. Spyderco isn't trying to punish us or make life hard. They have a business to run. They take a good faith guess and go with that.
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
Exactly. I think spyderco could bump up the turn out to around 2000 and they would sell just as fast. If there were more made they would still be very exclusive, but it would discourage the speculators in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Spyderco's been on a roll lately but many sprints don't sell well and get closed out a huge discounts. Spyderco isn't trying to punish us or make life hard. They have a business to run. They take a good faith guess and go with that. Bigger runs risk leaving lots of cash on the table and lots of red ink in Accounting.
 
I haven't been around the Spyderco forums for too long, so I may be completely wrong. I do believe something similar has happened recently with the m4 Military as well. I know it would be hard to estimate exactly how much to run, but it seems obvious from even an "outsider" aka me that 600-700 in that format is probably not enough. I'm sure Spyderco wants the confidence that they can sell them without reductions, but it seems somewhat obvious that supersteel plus millie/pm2(and high demand handles) would be quite popular. Whatever the case, I'd rather have them make low quantity sprints than no sprints.
 
What makes me sad is when a dealer puts them on ebay instead of offering it at a reasonable price on his website. Some people are even asking 400$ for a para2 sprint. That's nuts.
 
:thumbup: :D

JNewell said:
That's BS. I want someone to tell businesses just what they can do and what they can't, right down to how many knives can be bought. In fact, I think permits and OKAM should be the law. I don't want to have to be responsible for finding a sprint. I deserve it and I want someone to get it for me and make it easy. I have a right to a sprint and I want someone to guarantee it. That's the way things should be. :grumpy:





In the Soviet Union, anyway. Oh, wait... :eek: :foot:
Click to expand...
 
Which ones didnt sell well? The only one I'm aware of that Spyderco ended up with extras was the CPM-D2 Para and I'm not exactly sure why that was...

JNewell said:
Spyderco's been on a roll lately but many sprints don't sell well and get closed out a huge discounts.
Click to expand...
 
The quantity on sprint runs has been brought up on numerous occasion over on the Spyderco forums, with Sal saying that they are always trying to balance the run size with anticipated demand. Sometimes they produce way too few (S90V & CF Para2/Manix 2/Millie, Blue Manix 2) and prices skyrocket. Other times they make too many (D2 Para, Burgandy Baby Goddard) and have to be clearanced out at a possible loss. Sometimes they get it just right (XHP Manix 2, Red G-10 Persian, CF Balance) and you can pick one up at normal dealer prices for a month or more after release. It's hard to tell.
 
Great thread!
From what I've seen most dealers do indeed limit 1 per customer, but as previously stated, if not exclusive to one dealer people can still purchase a handful.

When it comes down to it I honestly feel it's first come first serve. I don't think it's fair that one would buy several with the intention of flipping for profit.

Although if one were to buy one sprint run knife and has had a down payment [or paid full] previous to receiving the knife I think it is their decision if they want to increase the price a bit if they decide to sell it upon arrival due to time value of money. If someone has to wait for the secondary market to buy one then that means that is money that has not been spent previously. It costs more for instant gratification.

Many buy items at full retail at the local mall even though they can save tons of $$$ if purchasing those same items online and waiting for them to be shipped.

If one has a down payment or paid full and is waiting months for that sprint run it is money missing.

I still disagree with mass purchases with the intention of flipping, but I can understand one's choice to raise the price if the market demand reaches an equilibrium.

If I cannot afford a Pre Sale Sprint Run I am grateful for the chance on the secondary market. Although I'd prefer to pay the original price I am not only paying extra for one's money lost over time, but for the chance of acquiring an exclusive item no longer available.

Ok rant over. :)
 
The notion that we can or should control prices in the aftermarket for a limited production product astounds me. It's a luxery item, not a necessity. It's not like someone is gouging for a necessity of like like food or gasoline. If you want a sprint run, keep your ear to the ground. I've missed several, and have only myself to blame, not the guy who sells his months later for a profit.

That said, a 2 per customer limit would suit me fine.
 
ZippoThisKnifeThat said:
ut I can understand one's choice to raise the price if the market demand reaches an equilibrium.
Click to expand...


And in fact the OP is currently selling a discontinued Spyderco at an asking price $75-100 over what internet dealers sold them for. That's completely okay by me. :thumbup:
 
Buffalohump said:
Which ones didnt sell well? The only one I'm aware of that Spyderco ended up with extras was the CPM-D2 Para and I'm not exactly sure why that was...
Click to expand...

From memory and recent notes while on websites of dealers - the JD Smith and some of the white micarta Goddards are still hanging around; the white D4 and E4 sprints were also available for a couple of years after issuance; the sprint Dyads are still in some dealers' inventory. The orange Millie started its career as a sprint that went production, but has been closed out at discount pricing...the SuperHawk started as regular production but got closed out the next year and I'll bet that total production was at or below 600 or so, so effectively a sprint that didn't sell well. And, as you noted, the CPM-D2 Para was a flop. There was a post a while back at SFs that said that the BG-42 Military sold very poorly when it was cataloged as a sprint (as hard as that is to believe now, years later). There are probably others...?

In some cases, like the CTS-XHP Manix 2, I don't believe that Spyderco could have increased production beyond the total made because there simply was no more of that steel available from Carpenter (Spyderco bought the first batch, and the second batch failed in production). I know that's not the point we started with, but it is a factor for some sprints. S90V and BG-42 are also limited availability, long-lead time orders from the manufacturer. Sprints that offer us that rare/exotic steel fix often won't be possible to run off in larger or open-ended quantities.

In the end, given the costs and trouble associated with sprints (Sal has said that they are "a pain in the a$$" in one of his posts), we're probably lucky that they do them at all. :)
 
This discussion is not about controlling prices in the aftermarket. Everyone accepts that rare knives command higher prices. This is about making the rare ones when they are released available to a larger number of people by limiting sales to one per customer. This is not an alien concept. When regular stores have deep discounts on items they often limit purchase amounts, in order to give everyone a fair shot. If you are able to get a friend to purchase one for you, fair game. I'm not saying its a perfect solution, but I feel it will help to spread the love a bit wider.

And BTW I have had several sprints over the years. Some were purchased from dealers, some on the aftermarket. However, lately I feel that there is a definite tendency to buy these items and immediately sell them for a profit once they are sold out. The S90V Para 2 is a case in point. No hard evidence of this, just going by the number of mint ones I see for sale.

KeithAM said:
The notion that we can or should control prices in the aftermarket for a limited production product astounds me. It's a luxery item, not a necessity. It's not like someone is gouging for a necessity of like like food or gasoline. If you want a sprint run, keep your ear to the ground. I've missed several, and have only myself to blame, not the guy who sells his months later for a profit.

That said, a 2 per customer limit would suit me fine.
Click to expand...
 
I'm one of those guys who either never has the cash in time or finds out too late about these things. So I've paid a premium on sprint run models several times. I've always been able to run down the ones I wanted (I even got an old Renegade last month!) & I pay what they're worth to me. I like the system myself. My girlfriend is still bitching about there not being a Caly3.5 sprint out, if you're reading, Sal (now I'm off the hook).
 
Buffalohump said:
Who doesnt love em? They are becoming quite the sought after item among knife nuts. And why not? Limited runs, tasty variations in handle material and some very hot super steels, all at quite affordable prices.... what's not to like?

Well, there is one thing that isn't so great. When people buy up several at a time because they know they can flip them later at a profit. :grumpy:

Case in point, the S90V Para 2. Judging by the number of mint ones that turned up on the aftermarket, clearly a goodly portion of these were purchased purely for that purpose.

So how does one prevent this from happening? I feel that there is one simple method. A limit of one per customer. I know KW did it with the M4 Millie. So why can't Spyderco make it pre-requisite for all dealers to do the same?

That way people wont be able to buy up a bunch just so they can resell for profit. These knives are meant to be enjoyed and used by knife nuts, not turned into a way to turn a fast buck.

My .02 cents....
Click to expand...

I disagree - and I missed the last sprint run of S90V Para 2. I had one on order at two different places, but got in too late. Too bad for me, but capitalism rules. Life is not always fair. You snooze, you loose! If you want one, pay the money - If it isn't worth it to you, than don't. If it wasn,t for unbridled capitalism, the sprint run would not have even been made. Someone else would be deciding what we buy, and how many we can have. Careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

My .02 cents.
 
Buffalohump said:
This discussion is not about controlling prices in the aftermarket. Everyone accepts that rare knives command higher prices. This is about making the rare ones when they are released available to a larger number of people by limiting sales to one per customer. This is not an alien concept. When regular stores have deep discounts on items they often limit purchase amounts, in order to give everyone a fair shot. If you are able to get a friend to purchase one for you, fair game. I'm not saying its a perfect solution, but I feel it will help to spread the love a bit wider.
Click to expand...

The problem with what you are suggesting (and where your example breaks down) is that at a regular store, the limits on the deep discounted items are regulated by the store, not the manufacturer of the product.

For example, Hasbro (the manufacturer) doesn't tell Target or Wal-Mart (the retailer) that they can only sell one or two _____ per customer. Hasbro just sends a pallet items to the store (or a distribution center, who then doles the items out to individual store locations) and Target or Wal-Mart then decide how to distribute those out to the customer.

In the same sense, Spyderco (the manufacturer) doesn't tell retailer-A what to do with their stock. Spyderco merely sends out a box of xyz-knives to retailer-A (or to distributor-Y, who then sends them out to retailer-A, retailer-B, and retailer-C), then the retailer decides how to distribute those out to the customer. Suggesting that Spyderco micro-manage the retailers is absurd.

I've missed out on some sprints that I would have liked. But, for better or worse (usually worse), profiteering and hoarding happens on any item that is limited in production, but has high potential demand. I understand that you want the knives available to the widest possible audience, but I hardly think Spyderco can regulate each and every knife to insure this.
 
The bottom line is that there is no practical, manageable (or probably even legal) way for Spyderco to effectively limit how many of a sprint run one person buys.
 
Speaking of sprint runs (I realize my comments are slightly off the general direction here but I do not think my question needs another thread - so here it is), does anyone know whether all the CF S90V Para 2s are out or if there are more to come?
 
The only real solution would be to eliminate greed from people's human nature. Without doing that, and due to our capitalist ideals, which is a good thing, people will always be trying to make a profit off of something. Very few people sell their knives on BF below the cost that they paid or at cost for a new knife. Look at hinderers for example. Buy them direct and you might pay upper 300s, look on here and I have seen the prices soar into the high 600s. Are they really worth that much? Not necessarily, but due to their scarcity and the availability of buyers, it makes it work.

No matter how much you try and control something, someone somewhere will always try and get around it for selfish ends.
 
orchunter93 said:
The only real solution would be to eliminate greed from people's human nature. Without doing that, and due to our capitalist ideals, which is a good thing, people will always be trying to make a profit off of something. Very few people sell their knives on BF below the cost that they paid or at cost for a new knife. Look at hinderers for example. Buy them direct and you might pay upper 300s, look on here and I have seen the prices soar into the high 600s. Are they really worth that much? Not necessarily, but due to their scarcity and the availability of buyers, it makes it work.

No matter how much you try and control something, someone somewhere will always try and get around it for selfish ends.
Click to expand...

To the people who paid the $600.00 it was worth it to them! I see no greed or selfishness here. They sold something they owned, to a person who was willing to pay the price. The seller was graciously sharing, and offering up an item that they owned, so that the buyer could enjoy it as he or she wishes. The seller was not hoarding or saving the item, which he could do. We are not entitled to the knife or anything else for that matter. Only Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness - note the word "pursuit" - it doesn't mean the receipt of!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top