Spyderco Compression Vs Ball bearing Vs BM Axis?

[P2P]

Axis lock gets my vote. I love the compression lock, but it creates a "hot spot" when cutting heavily.

 

[bdmicarta]

The compression lock is great, but I still find it a little more awkward to close than a liner lock or an axis lock. The axis lock on my mini-grip is definetly the 'slickest' lock I've used.

Same here.

I have read about how much stronger the compression lock is supposed to be but as a structural engineer I'm not ready to buy in on it completely. But ultimately I don't think that lock strength is a big factor on the folders that I carry so I'm not concerned about it. My previous EDC was a Benchmade mini-grip (axis lock) and my current EDC is a Spyderco Para 2 (compression lock).

 

[Huntsman Knife Co. LLC.]

After lots of experimenting with this idea of which lock is best Ive come to the conclusion that for me the AXIS lock is the best because

1.) It is ridiculously strong. the blade will fail before the lock on most knives
2.) It doesn't get in your way. No accidental disengagements and no hot spots
3.) Its the fastest lock out there. I can pull it out, open it, and close it faster than any other lock. The BB lock and compression lock have similar speed but are a bit harder to disengage.
4.) Ambidextrous- You can only use the compression lock with your right hand. Not a big deal for most but I think its nice to be able to use a knife with either hand.
5.) Potential failures and longevity. The only problem with the Axis lock I have heard of is an omega spring breaking. But that is an easy fix. Problems with lock face wear on the Compression lock or the polymer cage breaking of the Manix 2 BB lock are harder to fix and you'd have to send the knife in.

 

[EZ Bake]

After lots of experimenting with this idea of which lock is best Ive come to the conclusion that for me the AXIS lock is the best because

1.) It is ridiculously strong. the blade will fail before the lock on most knives
2.) It doesn't get in your way. No accidental disengagements and no hot spots
3.) Its the fastest lock out there. I can pull it out, open it, and close it faster than any other lock. The BB lock and compression lock have similar speed but are a bit harder to disengage.
4.) Ambidextrous- You can only use the compression lock with your right hand. Not a big deal for most but I think its nice to be able to use a knife with either hand.
5.) Potential failures and longevity. The only problem with the Axis lock I have heard of is an omega spring breaking. But that is an easy fix. Problems with lock face wear on the Compression lock or the polymer cage breaking of the Manix 2 BB lock are harder to fix and you'd have to send the knife in.

I've never heard of lock-face wear problems on the Compression lock, but I have had an Omega spring decide to fail on me. Also, I was under the impression that you had to send in a Benchmade if the Omega spring broke - they will not send the springs out (at least that's what they told me).

 

[nickortizzle1035]

the axis lock is amazing and my personal favorite! i like the compression lock alot also. I just got a spyderco dodo orange sprint the other day and i'm not going to lie. the ball bearing lock is so damn tight that i practically need to break my fingers to close the knife!! i think i need to send it in so they can adjust it or shorten the spring.

 

[Skimo]

The CBBL isn't bad, but I use two fingers on my axis lock too, so it's probably more natural for me to use the CBBL.

My only problem with the CBBL... it's plastic, sure it's sturdy, but I'd prefer a metal cage, no telling how that would impact pricing though.

No experience with the compression lock, I'm a lefty and after handling AXIS so many years ago, nothing beats it for me.

 

[ThirdTooth]

spydie ball lock is just to tight in my opinion. its frustrating when I can't close a blade with one hand if i need to :/

 

[chiral.grolim]

I've never heard of lock-face wear problems on the Compression lock, but I have had an Omega spring decide to fail on me. Also, I was under the impression that you had to send in a Benchmade if the Omega spring broke - they will not send the springs out (at least that's what they told me).

There have been numerous reports of vertical blade-play on compression-lock knives after heavy/long-term use - no lock-failure that I've read about, but lots of blade-play reports, just google it or even search this site. And you would expect precisely that result given the physics involved, even the description - "compression" - suggests to the user what to expect. *shrug*

And of course Benchmade isn't going to just send out springs to people. What companies do that? I know that Leatherman won't send you pieces or instructions on dis-assembly & reassembly of their tools, I doubt Wenger or Victorinox do. Does Spyderco or Kershaw or Gerber or Buck? If you want a new omega-spring to install yourself, make it yourself or buy a beat-up axis knife for parts :thumbup: Then it is (as stated) an easy fix if you even bother since, as previously mentioned, the lock continues to function normally with only one spring and continues to function (with manual assistance) with no springs at all. If you lose the lock-bar then you definitely need a new lock-bar... If the BBL cage breaks, you need a new lock-bar. If the compression-bar or stop-pin or tang compresses or wears, the lock keeps working but you'll have blade-play you can't remove without serious maintenance. *shrug*

 

[EZ Bake]

There have been numerous reports of vertical blade-play on compression-lock knives after heavy/long-term use - no lock-failure that I've read about, but lots of blade-play reports, just google it or even search this site. And you would expect precisely that result given the physics involved, even the description - "compression" - suggests to the user what to expect. *shrug*

And of course Benchmade isn't going to just send out springs to people. What companies do that? I know that Leatherman won't send you pieces or instructions on dis-assembly & reassembly of their tools, I doubt Wenger or Victorinox do. Does Spyderco or Kershaw or Gerber or Buck? If you want a new omega-spring to install yourself, make it yourself or buy a beat-up axis knife for parts :thumbup: Then it is (as stated) an easy fix if you even bother since, as previously mentioned, the lock continues to function normally with only one spring and continues to function (with manual assistance) with no springs at all. If you lose the lock-bar then you definitely need a new lock-bar... If the BBL cage breaks, you need a new lock-bar. If the compression-bar or stop-pin or tang compresses or wears, the lock keeps working but you'll have blade-play you can't remove without serious maintenance. *shrug*

I've seen several Axis-locks with blade-play (which doesn't bother me anymore than blade-play on a compression lock would since there is virtually no way for the lock to fail if nothing breaks). I'm not sure what physics are involved in a compression lock that aren't extremely similar in the axis lock.

Also, I never suggested that any companies send out springs to people - I was just making a counter-point to this statement:

The only problem with the Axis lock I have heard of is an omega spring breaking. But that is an easy fix. Problems with lock face wear on the Compression lock or the polymer cage breaking of the Manix 2 BB lock are harder to fix and you'd have to send the knife in.

Which seems to suggest that fixing an Omega spring is easier than fixing a polymer cage (when both have to be sent back in to the manufacturer to have a part replaced). You could also buy a beat-up caged BBL (or a steel ball bearing) and replace that in your CBBL or BBL - I guess I'm not sure why one is easier than the other.

I've also used my Para-2 extremely hard and not had any issues with blade-play (though I've read stories of blade-play online). I've owned 5 Axis-lock knives made by Benchmade and out of those, only one had minimal blade-play. Oh, and when an Omega spring breaks, the lock does not function normally (I can attest to that when mine broke).

If the Axis Lock's cross-bar (or the liners it sits against, or the blade-tang it's up against) wears, it's exactly the same as if a compression-lock wears in much the same way.

Wasn't trying to start anything - just thought it was odd that one instance of having to send in a knife for repair was easy where as the other was not.

 

[michaelm466]

I like all three, but for me Compression first, Axis, then BBL

 

[chiral.grolim]

I've seen several Axis-locks with blade-play (which doesn't bother me anymore than blade-play on a compression lock would since there is virtually no way for the lock to fail if nothing breaks). I'm not sure what physics are involved in a compression lock that aren't extremely similar in the axis lock.

I've seen axis-locks where the bar does not travel far enough up the tang for a secure lock in hard-use circumstances - VERY bad imho, wouldn't want that lock-bar to slip given how smoothly those knives open & close unless you tighten the pivot quite a bit...
But as to the physics of the design, the compression lock is direct vectors vs. off-set/distributed vectors of compressive force - the blade-tang and stop-pin both squeeze against a narrow piece of soft/springy liner steel. Compression (mushroom-effect) of the liner occurs. Wear on the liner (from movement on the tang) also occurs. Wear/compression of the tang & stop-pin are less of an issue as they are composed of stronger material than the liner. Under extreme circumstances, it is possible that the stop-pin or pivot-pin may attempt to tear out of the bolsters keeping them in place, but this is also less likely to be an issue given the distribution of forces and absorbance of energy into the liner being compressed on two sides. The design makes vertical blade-play an expected result... and while the lock is strong, it is not designed to self-adjust for blade-play, so this will not go away once it is present.

The axis lock-bar is an extra stop-pin, it is impacted by the blade-tang only on the bottom and distributes this force to its bolsters just like the primary stop-pin and the pivot-pin - three pins holding the blade in place and easily distributing the forces against them into the bolsters and avoiding compression. On these knives, the likeliest location for wear is actually the tang of the knife where it contacts the lock-bar, but the axis-locks I have encountered are designed such that the lock-bar can travel further along the tang as needed (to a point), adjusting for wear that may result in vertical blade-play. I have never seen an axis-lock knife with vertical blade-play, one can simply push the bar further up the tang to compensate.

Also, I never suggested that any companies send out springs to people ...
Which seems to suggest that fixing an Omega spring is easier than fixing a polymer cage (when both have to be sent back in to the manufacturer to have a part replaced). You could also buy a beat-up caged BBL (or a steel ball bearing) and replace that in your CBBL or BBL - I guess I'm not sure why one is easier than the other.

An omega spring can be fashioned from a variety of materials, including piano wire and paper-clips, it does not need to be sent back to the manufacturer for repair (if warranty is void), but I've never heard of anyone fixing the plastic BBL cage, especially since you may have lost the ball-bearing by the time you notice! You could probably glue/JB-weld the cage back together, and of course the little spring could probably be fashioned from a click-it pen, but i don't see this as easy as bending a piece of wire 3 times. *shrug*

... I've owned 5 Axis-lock knives made by Benchmade and out of those, only one had minimal blade-play. Oh, and when an Omega spring breaks, the lock does not function normally (I can attest to that when mine broke).

If the Axis Lock's cross-bar (or the liners it sits against, or the blade-tang it's up against) wears, it's exactly the same as if a compression-lock wears in much the same way.

Wasn't trying to start anything - just thought it was odd that one instance of having to send in a knife for repair was easy where as the other was not.

I am surprised about any axis-lock with vertical play and would attack Benchmade's QC on that (just like slipping axis-locks, but this wasn't a QC thread). Horizontal play should be solved easily enough via the bolsters & pivot-pin. And do you consider "normal" operation of the axis-lock to include pulling the bar back on only one side? If so, I question that idea as I believe the lock was designed for two-finger operation (although i have found one finger sufficient on some knives), and I've found one spring sufficient. Even with NO springs installed, the lock functions in that the bar can be wedged into place, although for security one may wish to place an obstacle behind the bar to keep it from sliding back - a stick, cord, etc. Easy fix.

Hopefully I've answered everything? I'm not trying to start anything either, we're just sharing knowledge and concerns, things that knife-designers can take into account for new innovations or versions of their products :thumbup:

 

[viper89]

I like all of the locking said locking systems but my personal preference is the Compression lock with the Axis lock right behind it

 

[n8swag]

I like the compression better. Mainly because if even one of the springs in the axis lock break, the whole lock fails.

 

[JNewell]

Comp lock on all counts, followed by the Axis, then the caged ball bearing lock.

And, yes, you can find examples of all of these that come out of the box with problems of various kinds or develop them over time, but in all cases these are a tiny minority of knives.

The Compression and ball bearing locks from Spyderco or the Benchmade Axis? Which is your personal favourite? Speed and ease of deployment, lockup, strength, overall feel?

Personally, I like the compression lock. You?

 

[Sonnydaze]

Definitely the Para2. I have both; no contest.
Sonny

 

[jazub]

Axis lock by far. Very smooth and consistent opening and closing with one hand and a fun mechanism to use as well. Comp lock is ok but I prefer standard liner lock, as the comp lock knives I have tend to bounce open a little when closing one handed. Not digging the plastic cage style of ball bearing lock so haven't tried that one out yet.

 

[nccole]

I look at the Native being about $50-55 less than a PM2 with main differences being G10 slabs and liners which should add about $15-20 (cost them maybe $5-7 for materials plus factory and man hours) - maybe add $5 for little bit more blade stock and ffg - so the premium really is about $25-30. Premium would be for it being the most popular/wanted model and Compression Lock in my thinking.

Also would be the same comparing Buck Vantage Pro with basically same material all around and of similar amounts - $50 or so price gap. $20 for the fact that it's a Spyderco and $25-30 for it being most popular/wanted model and Compression Lock.

The Native is a great great value with FRN, and comparing anything to it is almost unfair. Again, look at the Sage 3 or better yet, look at the Native 5 with g10, skeletonized liners, FFG, 4-way clip position, same clip, and S35 at $135 and up. That is $5 less than a PM2 with S35 (a sprint as well) and on average $25 more than a no frills PM2. That $5 is easily explained in more G10, and more steel, and more labor for the longer time in grind. The PM2 is also the cheapest compression lock knife you can currently buy. The Junior, Yojimbo 2, and Superleaf are all more expensive. Did not check on discontinued models on second-hand market, but again I think the PM2 is an excellent value.

I apologize I just saw EZ Bake's response and realize I am repeating what he said but am posting anyway!

 

[cutter17]

Never had the bbl lock, and only handled the original paramilitary at a gun show once. But I have handled several Axis Locks and I love it. So for me, it's the Axis!

 

[CrimsonTideShooter]

I've seen several Axis-locks with blade-play (which doesn't bother me anymore than blade-play on a compression lock would since there is virtually no way for the lock to fail if nothing breaks). I'm not sure what physics are involved in a compression lock that aren't extremely similar in the axis lock.

Also, I never suggested that any companies send out springs to people - I was just making a counter-point to this statement:

Which seems to suggest that fixing an Omega spring is easier than fixing a polymer cage (when both have to be sent back in to the manufacturer to have a part replaced). You could also buy a beat-up caged BBL (or a steel ball bearing) and replace that in your CBBL or BBL - I guess I'm not sure why one is easier than the other.Well, you can fix an omega spring with piano wire or guitar string which I can buy at any music store. I can't really mold a new polymer cage.

I've also used my Para-2 extremely hard and not had any issues with blade-play (though I've read stories of blade-play online). I've owned 5 Axis-lock knives made by Benchmade and out of those, only one had minimal blade-play. Oh, and when an Omega spring breaks, the lock does not function normally (I can attest to that when mine broke). Neither would the compression lock, if something broke. (stop pin, the liner itself..)

If the Axis Lock's cross-bar (or the liners it sits against, or the blade-tang it's up against) wears, it's exactly the same as if a compression-lock wears in much the same way. Not really, as the locking bar on an AXIS lock is free to spin, which means every time you open the knife it hits in a different spot - as opposed to the fixed liner being worn in the exact same spot over and over with the Comp. lock.

Wasn't trying to start anything - just thought it was odd that one instance of having to send in a knife for repair was easy where as the other was not.

My responses are above in red. I'm not trying to be argumentative at all, I don't even really worry myself with locks. I'm just playing devil's advocate.

 

[EZ Bake]

Well, you can fix an omega spring with piano wire or guitar string which I can buy at any music store. I can't really mold a new polymer cage.

I'll be honest - I only recently found that folks are making their own Omega Springs out of Guitar string (which is cool), but I can buy a ball bearing in pretty much any size at just about any hardware store for a non-caged BBL. As to the cage, it can be glued back together if it breaks (which is probably not optimal), but I wasn't really talking about home-remedies when I made that first response so I'll give this one to the Axis lock since the Omega Spring made from Guitar string doesn't really take that much to make (and is apparently better than the factory spring). Like I said, I'm not really a fan of BBL locks of any type over the Axis or Comp lock.

Neither would the compression lock, if something broke. (stop pin, the liner itself..)

Yes, but let's be honest - the probability of a Compression lock actually breaking (stop pin / liner / lock-bar) is far less likely than a broken Omega Spring.

Not really, as the locking bar on an AXIS lock is free to spin, which means every time you open the knife it hits in a different spot - as opposed to the fixed liner being worn in the exact same spot over and over with the Comp. lock.

That's actually a good point. I've never experienced a lock-bar traveling more than 50% on a compression lock, but could I not also rotate the stop-pin on a compression-lock model to basically move the wear outside of contact on either the lock-bar or the blade-tang in order to achieve good lock-up again (I've had my Paras apart more than a few times, but I can't honestly remember if the stop-pin is keyed on one-side)?