Spyderco Manix rust resistance...

I have not read the rest of these but since you have carried the H1 for so long I'm sure you can answer this. How is the edge on that steel. Do you notice any difference in it vs say a AUS blade or one of the old G1 or even one of the ATS55s or VG10 blades maybe?

I'm just a bit curious how H1 compares for ease of sharpening and edge retention.

Thanks.
 
wsyocum said:
I live and work in a very high humidity enviroment. I have owned and EDC'd several s30v knives and I can tell you that they will most definitely show rust spots after just a day or two.
Click to expand...
Which stainless don't, besides H1? How hot is it there?

-Cliff
 
The H-1 of the pacific salt that I had for a week through the passaround I would rate in edgeholding similar to Aus-6 maybe (that is on the PE part of the blade, and Sal mentioned that SE and PE behave quite differently in edgeholding). The upside though is that I found that it touches up beautifully and very easily, too.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Which stainless don't, besides H1? How hot is it there?

-Cliff
Click to expand...

Cliff,
Not sure...H1 is the first that hasn't for me. I've carried ATS-55, VG-10, GIN-1, 1095, AUS-8 etc., etc.. In the summertime esp. they all show rust at 2 days max. I have never had the first spot on the H1.
Right now not too hot...high of 80 today. In the summer we have typical N.FL/S.GA weather...90+ degrees with 80-90% humidity on most days. I actively work outdoors everyday. Once things heat up, I can pull out my knife and most always find condensation build up on the blade. Oh yeah...I sweat...alot...
 
Hi Cliff,

In discussion with Mr. Richard Barber, my metallurgist guru at Crucible, he decided to do some testing and find out why. He determined that the H1 steel is work hardening in the processing of the blade.

The more work performed, the harder the the "steel" became.

In micro harndess testing from the spine to the edge, he came up with the following; plain edge at the spine was Rc58. As the testing came closer to the edge, the blade got harder. At the edge of the plain edge version, the hardness was Rc65. On the serrated edge version, the same Rc58 at the spine, but the edge was Rc68+. (becasue the serrating of the blade is more "work" than the plain edge version)

So the serrated version has the advantage of being both serrated, and harder, hence the better performance ratio than normal plain / serrated ratios.

The term he coined was "differentially hardened".

Interesting stuff, this H1.

If you'd like to play with it, I'll send you some?

sal

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KnifeDude,
I'm a major buyer at the Fulton Fish Market in New York City and I come across lots of different uses for a knife. Firstly, you have to identify what you're using the knife for. When I'm in the market, among the many knives is a Carbon Steel Opinel which with a light coat of mineral oil have resisted all rust.

If you're using the knife for food preparation, please note that USDA regulations state that you must use stainless steel. My suggestion is that you carry any knife with any steel you want and keep it in your pocket. A coat of mineral oil is non-toxic and approved for use in and around food. For working, get yourself a Dexter Russell everyone in the entire food industry uses. Another suggestion is the Frosts of Sweden knives. Many of the previously mentioned knives come with a little plastic sheath so that you can carry it safely and securely.
 
KnifeDude,

Mineral oil will work, but you’ll need to reapply it after almost every time you use it, or it rubs off.

One of the lower carbon/more rust resistant stainless steels would stain less than S30V, but I often get light rust spots on my Forschner/Victorinox kitchen knives if I don’t dry them off thoroughly after cleaning….I am sure that the constant humidity of a fish store would cause rusting even faster.


I think that H1 would work well. H1 will not rust even with constant exposure to salt water [after 4 weeks, a Spyderco Pacific Salt soaking in a half full jar of seawater (exposed directly to both salt water and salt air/splashing) has not rusted at all].





- Frank
 
From Sal:

plain edge at the spine was Rc58. As the testing came closer to the edge, the blade got harder. At the edge of the plain edge version, the hardness was Rc65. On the serrated edge version, the same Rc58 at the spine, but the edge was Rc68+. (becasue the serrating of the blade is more "work" than the plain edge version)
Click to expand...

Does it mean that after 10 or 20 sharpenings using the 204 the hardness at the edge would be lower and lower because the hard edge with rockwell (65) would be removed?

Or, is the normal hand-sharpening enough to keep the edge hardness at 65?

I fear that in the factory sharpening the high temperature develops which 'drives' the edge to Rc 65.

Franco

P.S. This with 'differential' hardness is really an exciting fact.
 
Helle making laminated knives with high carbon stainless in core and 18-8 coockware steel:
C=0.08, Si=1, S=0.03, P=0.2, Mn=2, Ni=8-13, Cr=17-20, Cu=0-4.

You may imagine that this one really corrosion resistant. And lamination is way to go I think, even Sal do not beleve in it. Check Fallkniven U2 - it has 420 on the sides in SGPS in core:

Fallkniven-U2-09.jpg


They start producing more laminated knives.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Vassili,

I have the U2 - you are right, it is very corossion resistant.

But, I checked the Salt with H-1 in the sea water (Adriatic sea) last summer. Absolutely corossion resistant!

You are, Vassili, very much impressed with high HRC, much as me. I am surprised and happy that Salt is 'differentially tempered' from 58 to 65!

Sounds very interesting.

Franco
 
I hope Sal chimes in again to answer the question with the sharpening. Wondered the same myself. However, I don't think the the hardness is caused by the heat. As far as I know H-1 hards even during cold working the steel. I remember sobody from Spyderco saying that they even had to rethink their walzing and blanking techniques because of this effect.
 
The ability of the H1 steel to be differentially heat treated is a big plus to me. That is something I've only heard of in the non stainless steels and makes for a potentially good edge with the benefits of the more durable spine behind it. I am getting a Salt here today just because of finding out about this fact.
 
H1 is corrosian resistant then 420, but not like 18-8, try Fjellkniven at sea. And this micro hardening stuff sounds facinating I agree. Will be really interesting to see what this guru actually sad. Is this same for Benchmade H2O knives?

Thanks, Vassili.
 
It's differentially hardened, not heat treated. There is no heat treatment process. The steel is hardened in the cold rolling process.

As far as the sharpening goes, we don't know. It will either get harder, get softer, or stay the same.

My guess is that it will stay the same as sharpening is working the steel and removing steel at once. I guess time will tell.

sal
 
Sal Glesser said:
So the serrated version has the advantage of being both serrated, and harder, hence the better performance ratio than normal plain / serrated ratios.
Click to expand...
Thanks, that makes sense.

If you'd like to play with it, I'll send you some?
Click to expand...
Thanks, look forward to it.

-Cliff
 
nozh2002 said:
Helle making laminated knives with high carbon stainless in core and 18-8 coockware steel:
C=0.08, Si=1, S=0.03, P=0.2, Mn=2, Ni=8-13, Cr=17-20, Cu=0-4.

You may imagine that this one really corrosion resistant. And lamination is way to go I think, even Sal do not beleve in it. Check Fallkniven U2 - it has 420 on the sides in SGPS in core:
Click to expand...

How do you keep the high carbon cores from rusting?



- Frank
 
Sal thanks for the information on H1.


Why is the work hardening more in the serrated edge? Is it because there is more material being removed? Different manufacturing process? More heat generated maybe?


How dose the impact resistance of H1 compare to some of the other steels that you use?



Thanks,




- Frank
 
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