Spyderco Military and Moran Featherweight

Sal glad to see you are trying new steels. I would be interested in hearing what your testing results are regardless of the choice you make. Have you any plans to check out any of the other CPM steels like 420V, 3V, 10V etc.? As for changing to 440V didn't CPM recently decide to stop manufacturing that?

-Cliff
 
Hi,
I'm still a newbie but no longer a "lurker". I have already absorbed a lot of great info from you all, so I'll say thanks while I post. Now, I want a Military, but you all have me a bit concerned about which steel is preferable. If and when I have a choice, should someone new to quality knives stick to the ATS-34 for easier upkeep(sharpening and no rough duty)? It sounds from this discussion that I should stay away from the 440 for now. Thanks.
 
Cliff - Crucible has been and will continue to make 440V for us. We have always ordered speical batches anyway because of thickeness required and volume. CPM-3V & 10V are also great steels but have very poor corrosion resistance. Most of our customers prefer the lower maintenance of stainless steels.

JohnCD - 440V to ingot steel is like jets to props, like motorcars to horses & carriages. I's new and we're still learning, but most reports are highly favorable. So much so that we stopped making ATS Military's. The Starmate is 440V and the Natives will soon convert as well.

Edge holding in our own testing has been geometrically better than ingot steels. Some of the earlier models were probably too hard. The CPM steels seem to perform better when softer. Done right, at this time, I don't think there is tougher steel out there. Maybe 420V, but we're still testing.
sal
 
Anyway The Military is really a strong folder !
The edge holding, the ergonomy, the lock...

The biggest surpise has been the lock. We could not make it fail !
And God knows how brutal we can be !

Excellent knife !

(And I don't say that because I have discovered Sal is in the center of the Web...)

We will write the review after checking a plain edge.
(and I don't say that again because you know what...)

Cheers,
JM
 
As for those of us who have lived with the new Military for several months , I don't think their is any question of the superiority of 440V.Before that I lived with
BM AFCK and Stryker.The ats-34 edge tends to
chip easily and is particular about the way
it is sharpened.I like to use leather charged
with green chromium oxide compound for edge
finishing and maintenace.This actually dulls
ats-34 and frustrated the heck out of me
untill I finally gave up.That is all I have used on the Military though.It not only stays
sharper much longer then ats-34 but is easier
for me to maintain.If you don't want to be
spoiled.Then stay away from 440V.It will put
some awfully good knives in the dressor drawer.
 
I have found a comparaison between CPM440V and other steel
in Ilustrated Knives of February 1995.

The knives involved were created by one maker (veteran bladesmith Glenn Marshall)

STEEL #ANIMALS FIELD DRESSED BETWEEN SHARPENING

O-1 6 to 10 Animals
1095 6 to 10 Animals
ATS-34 10-15 Animals
440C 18 to 30 Animals
D-2 20-35 Animals
CPM T440V 30-45 Animals

Cheers,

JM
 
Nemo that's pretty interesting, those results make no sense at all to me.

ATS-34 holding an edge better than O1, 440C out lasting ATS-34, and 440V topping D2.

Anyone else think rusting might be the problem?

-Cliff
 
Hello everyone, Johncd, I'm a newcomer too, enjoy all the info. from everyone. In an earlier posting I stated that I did not care for 440v. My bad taste for 440v was left in my mouth by the Kershaw Random Task the one and only 440v I had ever had. Did not mean to imply, that CPM-440v was not good, just that I did not find it good for my needs. We all have to remember what we use our knives for. I cut alot of different things, rarely 1" rope, and never pvc pipe,I have a saw for that. I enjoy touching up my blades, its part of my hobby, and I beleive an art. ATS is a great steel in high demand, and I believe I've read that it is one of the more costly steels..Hatachi that is. Demand creates higher prices, and we have all heard whats going on with Japanese steels, haven't we ? Yes 440v is an edge holding monster! So if you are going to use your knife to cut pvc, dig in the sand for driftwood, or field dress 25 deer before you need to sharpen it 440v is the one. The 440v is very high in chromium and vanadium used in tools ect. Its very hard, don't expect to sharpen it with ceramic sticks. You will need diamond or Norton stone or such.I purchased a 98ats Military and it holds a great edge and I'm sure it will be around the rest of my lifetime, and since they are disc. by Spydrco you can get a real deal on one. Besides all the differences we all have for steels, lets not forget the most important thing is the Knife design and the Military is a classic, WISH THEY WOULD MAKE A SMALLER ONE, Are you listening Sal?... Whats up with ATS-55 ? Why did they remove the finger choils from the Military, or is it just on the 98 ats model that lost them? ...I do think that 440v works best with a thin edge, and serrated blades. You hardly have to sharpen them. I donot own a serrated edge, I'm a traditionalist I guess. Like to slice and dice
biggrin.gif
.....Ats 34 handles a thicker edge in my opinion. Whatever you choose JohnCD, you are on the right path with a Military. Check out the EDI Genesis 1 too, you will want both!! If ever there was a knife good for CPM steel it is the Military being used in the service or in the field for extended times. Great forum!! Doesnt anybody want to talk about the aus steels? he he he!I even like those! The forum heading also said MORAN feather, does anyone have one? Or is it a lost cause? HA HA....Better go I've started enough trouble? just kidding.
 
Bartman, 440V not being able to be sharpened on a ceramic stick but on a Norton stone doesn't make sense to me I would have assumed it was the other way around if there was going to be any trouble. Isn't ceramic s fair amount harder than the Norton oil stones? (Unless you are talking about Norton diamond stones.)

Anyway, I would assume that since Spyderco makes the Military in 440V and sells their sharpener which is a set of ceramic sticks, you should be able to sharpen 440V using ceramics. Any Military 440V owners care to comment?

I know that MD's O1 can be sharpened on a Sharpmaker quite easily, it would be very interesting if 440V was that much more abrasion resistant it made sharpening impossible on such.

-Cliff
 
He is probably talking about those ceramic
"crock sticks" .The alumnia-ceramic Spyderco
uses will cut any metal known to man.
 
I just sharpened my plainedge 440V Military (old model) on my Sharpmaker a few weeks ago. I had no problems. I expected to really have to use some elbow grease on this one, but it was as easy to sharpen as any ATS-34 knife I own. Perhaps easier. I was very surprised.

hope this helps,

Clay

------------------
Clay Fleischer
cdfleischer@yahoo.com

"10,000 Lemmings Can't Be Wrong!"
 
Even ceramic sticks are very hard. I have a plain round rod that I use for touchups. Its very fine (as fine or finer than the fine stones on the Sharpmaker). It has no problem with sharpening knives that are that hard that they slip on stones. I was tempted to see what would happen if I tried to use it on my Mirage-X Operator (a ceramic composite blade) to see which one would get abraded.

-Cliff
 
Hey,everyone: Yes Cliff I could not get the Random Task sharp with the ceramic sticks, they are not by Spyderco so not sure of there composition, just ceramic for finishing? Remember this was a new knife.. was not sharp when I got it. I do beleive that it had a bad factory angle, very thick. Worked hard to get it sharp.. no luck...atleast hair popin sharp! Did not want to remove too much metal since I figured I would return it or swap for another. After discovering the liner lock was defective, would creek and move under pressure...SCARY>> got serious and used a norton 1000 waterstone,finished with a 1200 norton diamond9mic. This did the trick, but this was to change the angle. That 440v is stout!
biggrin.gif
Swapped out the Task, not goin there again...Swapped for an EDI GEN-1 w/ats and it was hair poppin out of the box.. I posted a thread on how to sharpen our knives and Will Fennell replied as you did to get a Spyderco Sharpemaker. So I will get one and try it...Benchstones are great but you must be sure of your angles each stroke or you will erase your last stroke. Thanks to all now got to that forum and lets hear how you keep em sharp? got the spydie shapmaker in first place!

ALRITE
Bart

------------------
 
Ceramics cut decent steels fairly slow so if your knife was blunt it would be slow going to bring it up to a decent level on the ceramic sticks. I just use mine to maintain the edges on sharp knives.

For serious reprofiling when you are actually going to change the angle forget using the sharpmaker's sticks they are just too slow. If you want to use it use the method that Joe suggested and lean a decent x-coarse hone on the sticks (to get the angle) and sharpen off of that. Once you get your edge ground you can then put the polish on with the sharpmaker.

-Cliff
 
We have received today
the two Kershaw 1500 and 1510ST.

We will test them both next weeks.

The 1510 440V blade is very hard to sharp...

Cheers,

JM
 
Maybe tip strength is not Spydercos forte.I like alot about the design of Spydercos old endura,but when the tip broke on mine I reground a rough new tip on it and started looking for a tougher blade.I didn't send it back to them because some would call what I did to the tip abuse (like I said on another post,what some consider abuse is a working knives daily use) and I assumed that their knives focus on edge holding more than strength.
On the Military, however, strength is a selling point and I would hope the tip would not break without a lot of effort.
 
I have used and abused many Spyderco folders
and it's the first time it's even happen to me.

I remember someone who has broken his BM975 tip and that knife was famous for the strenght of his tip.
(Sh)It can happen.
This is no big deal and that's why we mentionned it.

So please get over it. ;-)

We got much more problems during the tests with the Random Task 1510 from Kershaw...

Cheers,

Nemo
"Mobilis in Mobile"
 
Hello,

Just a word to tell you how much we find easy to resharp the Military.

In the first time we resharp a knife which doesn't really need to be resharped <g> as the edge holding is incredible.

And you feel it really easy to resharp. It's simply magic !

JM
 
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