spyderco millie vs. emerson CQC-7

[Kaizen1]

Thanks for the reply. I ended up using a similar method to sharpen the one I got for my son. I could get a pretty good edge on it, but I didn't think that it was as fine as it could have been. But for a rough use knife, the opposite micro bevel was fine.

I've been able to get the chisel edges on the Emersons just as sharp as any other V-ground edge I've had. I don't think the level of sharpness is dictated by whether the edge is chisel or V-ground.

 

[SIFU1A]

Something I'd like to point out, all of my Emersons (2 CQC-12s; the "best" Emerson out there other than the customs) have flimsy locks. They are frame locks, but the locks feel so weak. Sebenza, Umnumzaan, SNG, SMF, the new Benchmade Lum design frame lock, even my Spyderco Military (again, I'm not a fan of Spyderco) have better lock IMHO. I don't know about Emerson liner locks though, but I'm guessing the same.

in what way do they "feel weak"?

i have a '12 and it locks up just fine, as good as any strider i have had and i've had a few.
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while EKI night have had a few issues with locks several yrs ago thats all in the past now, the EKI liner locks are as good (or as bad) as any other brand LL's. folks complain about EKI's "thin" liner locks well check out a millie, and ya never hear anything about them being bad lol, the thickness doesnt matter as much as how well its fitted and designed, and since '01 or so EKI's have been fitted and designed as well as any other LL around.

as far as a millie vs a CQC7 i have had several of both and while neither one is a huge fav of mine i would probably go with the '7, maybe, but it would be a tough choice, they are both good, i guess it would depend on what i wanted the thing for and what other knives i already had, now compare a millie with a CQC12 or a '13 i would go with the '12 or '13 every time, or a millie vs a SOCFK, it would be the SOCFK, imho the millie and '7 are both good knives and to say one is head and shoulders better than the other is just wrong, imho the main diff is ones a CG and ones a conventional "V" grind, if ya cant sharpen/dont like a CG the millie (or any other "V" grind) will win every time, it just depends on what ya want and why ya want it, they are both good.

 

[CarlBagget]

Sorry for ruffling feathers with my "flimsy" comment on the Spyderco Military. As I said, that is how it feels to ME. I've had it disengage when I gripped too tightly.
My eyes are "trained" pretty well.

I've always thought that the Police models were the best of the bunch. Some of the Spydercos are just too wide when closed, this one is not.

 

[Herr_Noobien]

Sorry for ruffling feathers with my "flimsy" comment on the Spyderco Military. As I said, that is how it feels to ME. I've had it disengage when I gripped too tightly.
My eyes are "trained" pretty well.

I've always thought that the Police models were the best of the bunch. Some of the Spydercos are just too wide when closed, this one is not.

The police3 is a wicked knife. I can't help but smile every time I open that thing up. F&F is fantastic and it almost has a 5 inch blade

 

[Buffalohump]

This is a pretty outrageous claim. You've only opened and closed it to admire it and the lock is worn out? Are you sure you bought a genuine Emerson and not something from e-Bay?

I have used my CQC-8 pretty damn hard and the lock is nowhere near worn out. And its got some pretty damn thick liners on it. Probably the thickest of all my Emersons.

And once broke-in they become broken, if you actually use a emerson they will need service in about 8 months. Some have thicker liners like the CQC-13 but others like my commander and CQC-8 have standard thickness liners and have been disappointing to say the least. My CQC-8 is a safe queen and sees no use, only the occasional opening and closing to admire it. There is not even a mark on the pocket clip and yet the liner is almost wore out, if you grab the blade and move side to side to check for blade play the liner will shift along with it.

I love emerson's for ergonomics and design but I just can't trust the lock.

 

[Buffalohump]

Here's a quick snap of my CQC-8 circa 06 compared to my Millie circa 02/03.

 

[Buffalohump]

'Feels' weak does not mean it is weak. The cut-out is thin to allow for easy release. But there should be no reason for that area to fail unless you purposely shove the lock over to the right. Why would you do that? Titanium has incredible strength and memory. I do not see that area 'weakening' over time, no matter how many times you disengage the lock.

Something I'd like to point out, all of my Emersons (2 CQC-12s; the "best" Emerson out there other than the customs) have flimsy locks. They are frame locks, but the locks feel so weak. Sebenza, Umnumzaan, SNG, SMF, the new Benchmade Lum design frame lock, even my Spyderco Military (again, I'm not a fan of Spyderco) have better lock IMHO. I don't know about Emerson liner locks though, but I'm guessing the same.

 

[Chazzy151]

Military

 

[DoctaD]

I've been able to get the chisel edges on the Emersons just as sharp as any other V-ground edge I've had. I don't think the level of sharpness is dictated by whether the edge is chisel or V-ground.

True, but in my hands I was not able to get it quite as sharp.
Perhaps in this application, the V-ground had steeper angles than the Chisel (unmodified), which provides a stronger edge, but not quite as keen with slicing.

 

[beluga]

Here's a quick snap of my CQC-8 circa 06 compared to my Millie circa 02/03.

That looks plenty tough for me. I guess I'll grab EKI liner locks in my next purchase. Looks very promising.

 

[Jason B.]

This is a pretty outrageous claim. You've only opened and closed it to admire it and the lock is worn out? Are you sure you bought a genuine Emerson and not something from e-Bay?

I have used my CQC-8 pretty damn hard and the lock is nowhere near worn out. And its got some pretty damn thick liners on it. Probably the thickest of all my Emersons.

It would only be outrageous if it was not true but unfortunately it is.

My CQC-8 is a last production run of the waveless 8, #244.

As you can see from the clip it has not been carried since its last service for the same problem.

Lock up on the 8 at one time looked like yours.

This is the lock of my commander that after exactly 8 months wore out and now slips if any pressure is applied to the spine.

This is the SECOND time this same problem has happened to both knives and unless I am extremely unlucky I would call this a problem.

 

[symphonyincminor]

Is that ^^^^^^^^ the new Emerson Slipjoint I've been hearing about?

I can't believe that they didn't install a slightly larger stop pin to keep the liner from moving over so far without much use. That's a really poor example of their lock engineering.

 

[Jason B.]

Is that ^^^^^^^^ the new Emerson Slipjoint I've been hearing about?

I can't believe that they didn't install a slightly larger stop pin to keep the liner from moving over so far without much use. That's a really poor example of their lock engineering.

Both knives had their locks starting in the same place as buffalohumps but as you can see that's no longer the case. I really do love emerson's and my 8 is my pride and joy, yeah they will take care of the problem if I send it in (and might I add that their service is top notch) but to me its ridiculous to send in a knife every year that claims to be #1 in hard use. I don't know if a larger stop pin would do anything as the Ti liner seems to wear like butter.

I'll probably get heat for this too but the 154cm used by emerson is kept at a lower Rc and while this makes it tough is also only gives it the edge retention of AUS8.

My vote is for the millie, if you like big knives this will be the one by which you judge all others.

 

[wongKI]

The Military's liner lock is pretty strong. I can't disengage it with spine whacks or brute force. I tried twisting the blade, but nearly got cut I only find it easy to disengage if I rest my index finger on the lock and grip tightly, but bear in mind I'm left-handed.

I like the nested liner. It makes the knife very slim and easy to carry.

 

[symphonyincminor]

The reliability of liner locks, like any locking mechanism, is contingent on how the mating surfaces and contact points are scrutinized. This is crucial.

knifenut1013 said that the titanium lock 'wears like butter'.... I wonder if Emerson heat treats the end of the locking liner surface to reduce this wear? Titanium is relatively soft compared to heat-treated steel, but the pictures he posted weren't indicative of accelerated lock wear.... the contact points are out of sync. The lockup is sloppy, period. Something is loose somewhere, whether it's the pivot, the stop pin, or it just could be poor geometry on wear the lock meets the blade tang. Since the knife closes with little-to-moderate pressure on the spine, I'm thinking it's poor mating surface geometry, but it's always hard to tell if you don't have the knife in front of you to inspect.

You could have a .100 thick piece of titanium behind the blade and still have a crappy lockup.

It's not the thickness or perceived robustness of the lock, but in how it's designed.

Negative issues with Emerson liner locks have been scattered throughout the forums over the years. Something is amiss when "THE #1 HARD USE KNIVES IN THE WORLD" come from the factory [a repair none the less!] with the example posted above.

 

[Buffalohump]

I'm pretty stunned to see those two locks. Especially seeing as how Emersons are designed to be opened with the wave, which is pretty hard on the tolerances. Given that you have a waveless 8, its even more puzzling.

Given your experience with your Emersons and obvious distaste for the steel they use, I'm surprised to hear you say you still love the knives. I guess they must have something going for them.

I would imagine its still worth sending those in for repair. The company has a very good warranty and its built into the asking price so why not take advantage of it?

Both knives had their locks starting in the same place as buffalohumps but as you can see that's no longer the case. I really do love emerson's and my 8 is my pride and joy, yeah they will take care of the problem if I send it in (and might I add that their service is top notch) but to me its ridiculous to send in a knife every year that claims to be #1 in hard use. I don't know if a larger stop pin would do anything as the Ti liner seems to wear like butter.

I'll probably get heat for this too but the 154cm used by emerson is kept at a lower Rc and while this makes it tough is also only gives it the edge retention of AUS8.

My vote is for the millie, if you like big knives this will be the one by which you judge all others.

 

[mongomondo]

Every one of my Emerson knives had to go in for service due to the lock. They either failed a light spine tap, didn't lock up tight, or something similar. They always service it for free and it comes back great, but I wish quality control was a little better. I keep buying Emerson knives because their ergonomics are about the best in the industry. You can buy knives with better steels and locks for less money, but ergonomics don't compare. The cqc14 is the most comfortable knife I have ever held, nothing matches it.

 

[Herr_Noobien]

To be honest, I'm on the fence about picking up an Emerson myself.Hate to hijack the thread but, How does the CQC-8 compare to the military?

 

[SIFU1A]

imho one thing thats hard on liner lock is waving, thus EKI locks wear faster if ya wave them a lot, some folks go nuts with them and wave them a lot, and that will make a difference on the LL EKI's, i have waved my '12 quite a bit though with no probs.

then again a bud has a '99 commander, which has been waved or inertia'd probably every time its been opened, and its been opened and used a LOT, also been used to pry open paint cans, pry at nails and tacks, cut tar paper/shingles/etc, been used hard daily (my bud is a framing contractor FWIW) and lock up on it is still 100%, i know, i just cleaned it up and sharpened it for him last weekend, so its held up fine for going on 10 yrs, so ya cant just say all are bad, or all will wear with waving/inertia'ing, some evidently will wear fine even with hard use.

 

[3Guardsmen]

I wonder if Emerson heat treats the end of the locking liner surface to reduce this wear?

When I called EKI, back in 05, and asked that same question, I was told by Mary Emerson that they did not.

Count me in as another huge fan of Emerson designs and another EKI customer who has been less than satisfied with the quick wear exhibited in the locks of ALL of the EKIs I've owned (and I've had to send them all in within a year of purchase for lock 're-tuning')!

The Spyderco Military uses a .050, stainless steel, locking liner that is nested into the G-10 scale, which has a fixed stop pin screwed into it.

The EKI CQC-7 uses a .050-.065, Titanium, locking liner that isn't nested into the G-10 scale, which does not have a fixed stop pin screwed into it.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which liner-lock is going to wear out first. Even if the EKI you get has the thickest Ti locking liner (.065) available at the time Emerson makes that batch, it will not be as strong as a .050 thick stainless steel liner, nor will it wear as slowly as one. The fixed stop pin vs. loose stop pin is a whole other issue as well.