Spyderco "mislead" about price increases!!!

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Lodd said:
However, there were a few others in the thread that were trying to have a constructive discussion and some others basically told them to shut up because of their lack of expertise. That is what prompted my remark.
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I think I am one of those to whom you are referring.
First. Aside from being a moderator I am also a member and a life long knife knut. As a member, I am allowed to voice my own opinions. When I post as a moderator, I do so in colored font, typically blue. If I am posting as a member, it's just regular black. Most of my comments in this thread have been in black ink. I have acted as a moderator only twice.

I've been a knife enthusiast and have carried and used knives for about 60 years now. Moreover, I'm a chemist and a materials engineer. I've worked in factories that produced either materials or things for over 40 years. When I post my opinion, it is on that basis. I take exception to those who know nothing about manufacturing, importing, and selling trying to tell a man who does know all of those things how to run his business. If you are not an expert in all those fields, then you have no business doing that. I sure as heck don't try to tell Sal how to run his business and I do have some knowledge of all of those.

BladeForums exists to discuss knives, not to tell Sal Glessar how he should run his business.

Discuss the knives all you want. You don't like them? Tell us why. Get in Sal's face and state that he needs to change his designs and materials and the way he runs his business to make them cheaper? Go away.
But I will not infract somebody that does. Nor will I move their posts offline.
 
Twindog said:
Wouldn't work. You'd have to sharpen half way up the heel of the blade. It would look awful. There would be no grind to follow.
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I can unabashedly guarantee that I could sharpen that knife. It would take multiple angles, a bit of skill, and a smidgen of luck, but the kamis of Himalayan Imports will often times dead out an edge like that on knives that are straight bladed and have no guard. They are under the constant impression that westerners have hands the size of catchers mitts and worry abbout out hands sliding up the blade.

I wouldnt say my sharpening work is museum quality, but I have been managing to keep my HI blades sharp and ungouged for a bit over 18 years now. I start with a free hand stone, move to a free hand ceramic stick, and finish with either multiple layers of various grits of automotive sandpaper and/or a loaded flat strop.

The knife may end up convexed a bit, but thats the edge I prefer anyway.
 
[QUOTE="The Whip, post: 20004344, member: 191826"
As a major fan of other brands and a lesser fan (but certainly still an avid, longtime supporter) of Spyderco, it's often off-putting to watch. Spyderco is justified by lots of guys here for doing things that would bring cries of outrage from those same members if they were done by other companies. I think the double standards help to inspire threads like this one.


-Steve[/QUOTE]
The man invented the pocket clip and made one hand opening mainstream. I'll forgive him pretty much anything design wise after that.
 
The Whip said:
Yeah, I have a whole bunch, too. But almost all of them were purchased more than ten years ago, for the very reason that you suggest.




That's not true. All of Spyderco's authorized dealers received the same dealer pricing. And that "Special Price" term was used throughout the catalog. The $99 price wasn't even the lowest offered. If you purchased two or more of the Military models, you got them for $95 apiece. Since no such volume discount exists today, that actually makes the price increase 102%. But I didn't bother mentioning that in my first post because I was trying to make a point, not stretch one.

Besides, Cutlery Shoppe remains an authorized (and favored) Spyderco dealer, so any "bonus buys" should still be reflected in current pricing. It's a legitimate comparison.




This is getting way off topic, but since the conversation's course has turned that direction, I'll chime in. I agree with those assessing Spyderco's following on these boards as cult-like. It's certainly not unique to Spyderco, but the company and its owner definitely are at the top of the Blade Forums Worship Roster. Just look at some of the language used.










As a major fan of other brands and a lesser fan (but certainly still an avid, longtime supporter) of Spyderco, it's often off-putting to watch. Spyderco is justified by lots of guys here for doing things that would bring cries of outrage from those same members if they were done by other companies. I think the double standards help to inspire threads like this one.


-Steve
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The 440V Military was a special price to only some dealers. That's the way it worked then. :)
 
Quiet said:
Also, I would disagree with your assertion that knife art should be highly functional entirely. :)
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I love "knife art", as well. I would not even consider using that for cutting. I have cheap, very functional users (Tenacious, Pacific Salt, Centofante, Cara Cara) that I can beat up.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
I find it almost amazing that people carry this kind of attitude into a knife forum. Did you think that on an enthusiast specific forum you wouldn't encounter people that are passionate about knives? That's literally the single aspect that generally unites everyone here. Dismissively accusing people of cultish behavior because they're passionate about their hobby and the brands they enjoy on a forum made specifically to embrace those things just makes you look like your feelings got hurt because you got an intense response for some criticism that you posted, to be honest. Welcome to the internet, people are going to vociferously disagree with you.
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Nah I used to post on dog forums, you ain't seen nothing if you think this place is passionate and vociferous.

I have heard cat forums are even worse.
 
brownshoe said:
The 440V Military was a special price to only some dealers. That's the way it worked then.
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When I got mine directly from Spyderco, 440V was the only steel offered for the Military at the time. I'll have to take your word about special Spyderco pricing for Cutlery Shoppe.


Eli Chaps said:
Hey there Steve. If you're going to quote me and try to use that snippet to paint the narrative you seek, you're doing me, you and the entire discussion a disservice at best. See, ya left out the parts in that same post where I said,




And also in that same post where I said,




See Steve, I never said that Sal and Spyderco are above reproach. Quite the opposite in fact. And I feel like I addressed what you perceive as a double-standard pretty well. It isn't a double standard Steve, when one person and company conduct themselves at a higher standard than other companies.
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Eli, you're right! In order to emphasize my point, I focused on the phrasing that you, Lee D, Quiet, and JParanee had used rather than concerning myself with the original intent of your posts. I apologize, gentlemen, for using your words to exemplify a perceived sentiment that may not reflect at all how you actually feel.

My overall point was simply this: If a company other than Spyderco raised the street price of one of its flagship models by 94% (or 102%) over the span of seventeen years, I don't believe too many Forumites would respond with, "Yeah, but the company president is such a good guy!"


-Steve
 
Lee D said:
You aren’t kidding, I moderated two big ones and cleaning up threads can be an all day job.
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Or worse. I was a moderator on a members only, professional forum for coating application and finishing. Finishing and coatings of all types... metal, wood, sheet rock, masonry, factory applications, etc.

Coating application (and finishing) is part science as dictated by the manufacturer of a product (Sherwin Williams Industrial, 3M, etc.) and part practical experience. A professional applicator develops their own recipes and application protocols that depend on humidity, temperature, product, solvency, and on and on. Then you fine tune the material to your exact method of application, down to the brand of guns and compressors or HVLP equipment you use. Sharing information among professionals took month to years off our respective learning curves, which in turn made us all money.

Till they opened it up to the public, moderating was easy and we learned A LOT from one another! Once the front door was unlocked, it went down that road. Factions developed, it became a limited clubhouse of sorts ( "don't tell me that, I have been posting here for XX years now and I have XXXX posts" ), and then it became a place where there was too much fun made of someone that made a mistake/error of ignorance, and then the one upsmanship of the members entertaining one another at someone's expense. Then someone gets butt hurt, insults started, and then the members would turn on one another. The guys with the most posts and the most expensive equipment, and yes, fanboys of both, were rabid in defending their turf. More people pissed off at one another.

I moderated the way I think (which I grant is wrong). Poster: " I like DeVilbiss guns, but their quality can be a little suspect, but their pricing absolutely sucks. There is no way they can justify their pricing." Me: "Yeah, they seem to have jumped out in front of the market a bit, but there are plenty of alternatives to to that gun." Poster: "But they should sell that gun to me at the price I think is fair, not what they want." Me: "I think I should be able to buy a new truck for $20K and my back shouldn't hurt when I get up in the morning. You won't win this one and honestly, DeVilbiss doesn't care about your opinion. You voiced your complaint, no move along."

Members decided I was too harsh. (All the powers that be know how much I hate a whining complainer... I thought I was nice!) They needed a more bitch time. After all, we were a specialized group and wives, girlfriends, children and even their own friends didn't care about the new Binks HVLP gravity fed CAS gun that was so ground breaking. So when it failed or was improperly used, who could they turn to? And of course, there are fans and fanboys of everything these days, so the forum devolved into a lot of pissing matches. Signal to noise ratio was probably about 15% to 85%. Not worth the time. I quit.

Moderating requires a great proficiency in different skills I don't have. Patience, more patience, prudence in judgement, a certain fatherly way of herding the posters to behave, and sorting through mountains of opinions and their applicability. And when opinions are denied or ridiculed by other forum/board members, that's when the real fun starts for moderators. It is indeed a FULL time job.

Hats off to all the moderators on this forum! Back on track, I owned a couple of Spydercos and really appreciated the workmanship. The blade shape was a killer for me as I have to carry my work knives under my tool belt when I am on site. The broad blade design was really uncomfortable under my tool bags. Liked the knife, not the design. Thought the price was fair (this was about 10 years ago) and found it to be commensurate with ZT which I ultimately settled on. I would advise anyone that doesn't like the pricing of ANY product to pull their pants up and walk away. Only buy what you like at the price you want. You will save a mountain of money.

Robert
 
The Whip said:
When I got mine directly from Spyderco, 440V was the only steel offered for the Military at the time. I'll have to take your word about special Spyderco pricing for Cutlery Shoppe.





Eli, you're right! In order to emphasize my point, I focused on the phrasing that you, Lee D, Quiet, and JParanee had used rather than concerning myself with the original intent of your posts. I apologize, gentlemen, for using your words to exemplify a perceived sentiment that may not reflect at all how you actually feel.

My overall point was simply this: If a company other than Spyderco raised the street price of one of its flagship models by 94% (or 102%) over the span of seventeen years, I don't believe too many Forumites would respond with, "Yeah, but the company president is such a good guy!"


-Steve
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(Rubs forehead) Ok. Ok, so I have questions. Did you read back to yourself what you just said before hitting submit? An item had a significant increase in price? Over seventeen years? :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:o_O

No way, really? That's totally not possible, and couldn't possibly be a defensible thing. Naaahhhhh, surely not.

What's that?

"What about the cost of food?"
"What about the cost of gas?"
"What about the cost of fuel?"
"What about the cost of clothing?"
"What about the cost of property/property taxes?"
"What about the cost of utilities?"
"What about the cost of medical care (and coverage for employees)?
"What about, what about, what about?"

Everything is more expensive than it was seventeen years ago. It is objectively and undeniably more expensive to make a product today than it was seventeen years ago. I really cannot comprehend the ire or anger that Spyderco has dared to increase their prices over such a long span of time, or anyone else for that matter. Incidentally, your claim that Spyderco is somehow not held to the same standards as other companies is simply false. Their reputation, and the goodwill, appreciation, and affection from this community is entirely based on merit. Are you able to point out any specific examples of double standards that can't be explained any other way? If so, I'd sure love to hear about them.
 
The Whip said:
When I got mine directly from Spyderco, 440V was the only steel offered for the Military at the time. I'll have to take your word about special Spyderco pricing for Cutlery Shoppe.





Eli, you're right! In order to emphasize my point, I focused on the phrasing that you, Lee D, Quiet, and JParanee had used rather than concerning myself with the original intent of your posts. I apologize, gentlemen, for using your words to exemplify a perceived sentiment that may not reflect at all how you actually feel.

My overall point was simply this: If a company other than Spyderco raised the street price of one of its flagship models by 94% (or 102%) over the span of seventeen years, I don't believe too many Forumites would respond with, "Yeah, but the company president is such a good guy!"


-Steve
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I actually agree with you that Spyderco does catch less flak for things like that than many other manufacturers, but they have certainly gotten significant criticism for the MAP changes (I know because I was one of the ones criticizing) so they're definitely not immune. But the other thing that I think is often overlooked and does a great deal to help insulate them from that kind of criticism is that, unlike any other knife company I can think of, they're extremely transparent about their pricing and policy changes. They generally post here with the policy, their reasons for it and participate in the discussion of said policy. I may still have issues with those policies, but I'm much less likely to grumble and groan in the open forums when the company reps and the owner have done me the courtesy of trying to personally address my concerns.
 
The Whip said:
When I got mine directly from Spyderco, 440V was the only steel offered for the Military at the time. I'll have to take your word about special Spyderco pricing for Cutlery Shoppe.





Eli, you're right! In order to emphasize my point, I focused on the phrasing that you, Lee D, Quiet, and JParanee had used rather than concerning myself with the original intent of your posts. I apologize, gentlemen, for using your words to exemplify a perceived sentiment that may not reflect at all how you actually feel.

My overall point was simply this: If a company other than Spyderco raised the street price of one of its flagship models by 94% (or 102%) over the span of seventeen years, I don't believe too many Forumites would respond with, "Yeah, but the company president is such a good guy!"


-Steve
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Oh, additionally I take serious issue with your math on this one in the same way I take issue with the OPs math. The MSRP of the Military when it was introduced in 1996 was $175. Current MSRP is $275. So the price has gone up 57% in 24 years, which is actually not at all far off inflation.
 
The Whip said:
My overall point was simply this: If a company other than Spyderco raised the street price of one of its flagship models by 94% (or 102%) over the span of seventeen years, I don't believe too many Forumites would respond with, "Yeah, but the company president is such a good guy!"
Click to expand...

Quiet said:
(Rubs forehead) Ok. Ok, so I have questions. Did you read back to yourself what you just said before hitting submit? An item had a significant increase in price? Over seventeen years? :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:o_O

No way, really? That's totally not possible, and couldn't possibly be a defensible thing. Naaahhhhh, surely not.

What's that?

"What about the cost of food?"
"What about the cost of gas?"
"What about the cost of fuel?"
"What about the cost of clothing?"
"What about the cost of property/property taxes?"
"What about the cost of utilities?"
"What about the cost of medical care (and coverage for employees)?
"What about, what about, what about?"

Everything is more expensive than it was seventeen years ago. It is objectively and undeniably more expensive to make a product today than it was seventeen years ago. I really cannot comprehend the ire or anger that Spyderco has dared to increase their prices over such a long span of time, or anyone else for that matter. Incidentally, your claim that Spyderco is somehow not held to the same standards as other companies is simply false. Their reputation, and the goodwill, appreciation, and affection from this community is entirely based on merit. Are you able to point out any specific examples of double standards that can't be explained any other way? If so, I'd sure love to hear about them.
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The Military offered now also happens to be a better knife than the original Military. I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet in this thread, but Spyderco improves upon their knives over time, even if the name doesn't change. Obviously the Delica and Endura 4 is improved over the Delica and Endura 3, but the Military has been improved (how many times? I don't know, I'm not the one to ask) over the years although there hasn't (yet) been a Military 2 or 3.
 
Some Spyderco knives go up in value after you buy it .
jz470bU.jpg
 
The Whip said:
My overall point was simply this: If a company other than Spyderco raised the street price of one of its flagship models by 94% (or 102%) over the span of seventeen years, I don't believe too many Forumites would respond with, "Yeah, but the company president is such a good guy!"
Click to expand...

Certainly not a Spyderco superfan, I haven't carried one in a couple years and I had no knowledge of modern knife brands/communities when I did. I will say that if a company's product line vastly increases in popularity over a long period of time (say 17yrs) and the price only doubles, that seems like incredibly stable pricing. I have purchased too many new tools at a cheap introductory price, just to find them selling for double or triple within a year as they become popular and hard to get.


Quiet said:
Everything is more expensive than it was seventeen years ago. It is objectively and undeniably more expensive to make a product today than it was seventeen years ago. I really cannot comprehend the ire or anger that Spyderco has dared to increase their prices over such a long span of time, or anyone else for that matter. Incidentally, your claim that Spyderco is somehow not held to the same standards as other companies is simply false. Their reputation, and the goodwill, appreciation, and affection from this community is entirely based on merit. Are you able to point out any specific examples of double standards that can't be explained any other way? If so, I'd sure love to hear about them.
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I have to agree with Quiet pointing out that basic inflation and material cost increases should have increased the prices significantly more than they have. Imagine the change in cost for a can of beer or loaf of bread in the last 17 years? It certainly is more than Spyderco knives! If anything, I think Sal could sell them for more than he does and they still wouldn't be unreasonable. With models that have over a decade of positive feedback, why wouldn't I trust that it deserves a price-hike.

Now that I have been thoroughly convinced that I need a Spyderco, what would you all recommend as an entry level Spyderco knife? I'm thinking $30-60 range
 
scarysamcary said:
...

Now that I have been thoroughly convinced that I need a Spyderco, what would you all recommend as an entry level Spyderco knife? I'm thinking $30-60 range
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Might be a smidge over, but Dragonfly 2. Use it, let it grow on you and all of a sudden you realize how many knives you don't carry. :)
 
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