Spyderco moving to MAP pricing!

Wow! Lots of passion on this subject. That's good, we all learn.

Dan, Perhaps a band-aid is the first step in a cure?

I don't think we need any government "rules" here.

I think we can all agree that the recent attention in pricing in over the past decade is growing. Dissatisfaction in many areas of the business chain due to pricing issues has become more prevalent. A "trend" to be watched.

I think we can all agree that the internet has changed global business in unprecedented ways.

I think we can all agree that the availability of inexpensive Chinese mfr knives in very high volumes is also influential.

Now there are more customers, more dealers, more suppliers, more volume, more counterfeits, more thieves, etc. The increased ability to reach more of everything. Going from horses to autos changed everything. We must learn to adapt to these changes and still keep our industry healthy.

We don't claim to know the answers as the area is uncharted and decisions will be important.

We are primarily concerned with our own business chain (Spyderco; ELU's, dealers, suppliers), but
Minimum Advertised Pricing (MAP) is, in our opinion, a way that we can help govern our industry if it's not unreasonable.

It is not our desire to have less that a good relationships.

sal
 
Hi Sal,

Yeah, I think it all goes back to what you posted before as in Some feel cheap is the most important thing.

And that is what I and some others call the Walmart mentality, and that is the nicest way I can word it. LOL :D

I can word it differently and really express how I really feel about it, but I won't. ;)

I guess Spyderco could start making gas station knives to keep those types happy. ROFL

Some act like they want Sebenza quality for $25, but it would still be overpriced and it should cost $15 because they can buy an (XX) for that.

That's when I start screaming at the computer screen. :mad:

Jim
 
Last edited:
Ankerson said:
Hi Sal,

Yeah, I think it all goes back to what you posted before as in Some feel cheap is the most important thing.

And that is what I and some others call the Walmart mentality, and that is the nicest way I can word it. LOL :D

I can word it differently and really express how I really feel about it, but I won't. ;)

I guess Spyderco could start making gas station knives to keep those types happy. ROFL

Jim
Click to expand...
Yep. Welcome to the real world! Walmart and Amazon didn't become what they've become because people weren't drawn to them. Rail against them if you must, but short of some kind of cataclysmic disaster, my guess is that they'll both be here and thriving long after you're gone.
 
bld522 said:
Yep. Welcome to the real world! Walmart and Amazon didn't become what they've become because people weren't drawn to them. Rail against them if you must, but short of some sort of cataclysmic disaster, my guess is that they'll both be here and thriving long after you're gone.
Click to expand...

I doubt it... ;)

They will fall just like all the rest before them have looking at the history.

If some things happen like I think they will in the future Walmart will crash and crash hard with Amazon to follow shortly after.
 
To be replaced by what? I suspect it's time to wake up and smell the global economy, my friend. All MAP pricing will do is create a vacuum underneath it that Chinese manufacturers will be more than happy to step in and fill. Mark my words. It's already happening.
 
bld522 said:
All MAP pricing will do is create a vacuum underneath it that Chinese manufacturers will be more than happy to fill. Mark my words.
Click to expand...

Well, no.
People wanting $15 or $20 knives are already not buying Spydercos.
Or anything by Benchmade either.

We're enthusiasts for the most part; some of us just really like high quality tools.
Enthusiasts and people wanting higher-end stuff are a market that pays more than the average Walmart shopper.

Go ahead, tell the next guy you see about the $50 knife from China you last got...and he'll laugh at you for spending so much on "It's only a knife."

Different markets can take different pricing tactics and be successful because they are, well, different markets. :)
 
Yeah, people that are buying BMW's and Mercedes aren't buying YUGOS.... ;)
 
Yugos and $15-$20 knives? Hmmmm. I suspect some folks are going to be in for a rude awakening, all right . . .
 
I don't know what MAP pricing is supposed to protect or change, but one thing is sure, it cannot protect anyone (manufacturer, dealer or consumer) from the online businesses (Amazon, for e.g.). Amazon is the new and revolutionary way of offering a great product to consumers at a reasonable price and is here to stay. Its a brave new world, and here to stay. Those who want to purchase from a brick & mortar, surely do so, just don't criticize others who share your ideas of shopping.

If the MAP pricing hurts my pocket, I am looking elsewhere. Its that simple. :D
 
bld522 said:
Yep. Welcome to the real world! Walmart and Amazon didn't become what they've become because people weren't drawn to them. Rail against them if you must, but short of some kind of cataclysmic disaster, my guess is that they'll both be here and thriving long after you're gone.
Click to expand...

Yup, amazon and walmart are here to stay, and will only get better. You either adapt or perish in the global economy. :D
 
bld522 said:
Considering that I've been in sales most of my life, so is mine.
Click to expand...

We'll that's excellent news.

I don't need a salesman. By sheer coincidence I'm also one of those people who's always right so I know what I want and all about it.

I leaned it all via the internet and to me you're as much a part of history as those M&P dealers that need propping up.

Your company can dispense with with what they pay you, salary or commission and all those soft costs like expenses and travel and training.

Then your company can knock those points off my price. They still get the sale and I still get my product.

Help me out but I don't see the downside.

Do something else? Give me the business case because I'm pretty sure me saving money will trump anything you're doing for me.
 
I personally don't like the MAP and I just feel like they are putting their cost on me while squashing small business in one fell swoop. That being said, it all depends on the price to value ratio. When benchmade did this most of their knives where already at the top end of pricing (my opinion), but when that MAP hit it hurt ALOT and I haven't bought a benchmade since. It's always about how much is it now, which in the history of MAP with knife companies haven't went all that well for me.
 
bld522 said:
Yugos and $15-$20 knives? Hmmmm. I suspect some folks are going to be in for a rude awakening, all right . . .
Click to expand...

Not me. ;)

You see, I'm already a Walmart shopper due to always being just this side of broke.
I look for the sales on Amazon for most things, and love free shipping.

Yet when it comes to knives, I pay the price of admission because I really like knives.

You're living in a world without gradation it seems...things can be dualistic.
Or you talk about a globalized economy...hello, it's been globalized/globalizing for hundreds of years; it isn't something new.
Even offshore production to keep prices down...bananas and coffee anyone?
 
And besides, everyone is missing the most important part of this thread: Spyderco Moon-base and jetpacks!!!
 
stabman said:
Not me. ;)

You see, I'm already a Walmart shopper due to always being just this side of broke.
I look for the sales on Amazon for most things, and love free shipping.

Yet when it comes to knives, I pay the price of admission because I really like knives.

You're living in a world without gradation it seems...things can be dualistic.
Or you talk about a globalized economy...hello, it's been globalized/globalizing for hundreds of years; it isn't something new.
Even offshore production to keep prices down...bananas and coffee anyone?
Click to expand...


Same here. :thumbup:

Things I don't buy at Walmart..... Knives and Shoes..... I really like knives and quality, good shoes are very important IMO.....
 
I don't think anyone here is knocking Amazon or Wal-Mart. They are successful companies that have many plusses on their card. They're not likely to go anywhere in the near future and they're also dealers of ours. We think our MAP experiment will work. If not then we'll still continue to try to make things better for all concerned.

sal
 
You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people any of the time.
 
Sal,

Perhaps I'm not really understanding this fully. MAP seems like a solution to alleviate a lot of the problems you've mentioned on the dealer/supplier side. But doesn't it also ultimately hurt the consumer by delivering less value in the form of across the board higher prices? Although Spyderco is not profiting from MAP but it seems like this will benefit smaller dealers at the expense of hurting all knife buyers because we ultimately will have to pay more.

And as you've mentioned that the knife industry in the past 10 years have experienced significant price gains (especially Japanese made Spydercos delivering ever less value), and there have been numerous threads discussing the ever increasing prices. It seems that for the consumer, MAP is a bad thing because it will inevitably increase prices further in an environment of existing price gains.

I believe the U.S. knife industry today is in a premium product segment, and when that premium stretches upward it will inevitably attract competition regardless the cost of entry as evidenced by the recent failure of Surefire knives who did not have the economy of scale. But technology such as 3d printing and the business model of American designed but foreign finished knives will create opportunities...


Sal Glesser said:
I don't think anyone here is knocking Amazon or Wal-Mart. They are successful companies that have many plusses on their card. They're not likely to go anywhere in the near future and they're also dealers of ours. We think our MAP experiment will work. If not then we'll still continue to try to make things better for all concerned.

sal
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top