SPYDERCO news for 2001!

Status
Not open for further replies.
RE: Gunting controversy.

It's still a unique folder, and a Spyderco at that.

I bet it would be less controversial if it had a damascus blade, was limited to 100, and came out of Chris Reeve's workshop.
Then it would be considered art.

Also, is the "protrusion" -- whether you take them seriously or not -- any more sillier than Hibben fantasy knives?

BTW, can the protrusion on the Gunting double as a "wave" type opener?


[This message has been edited by Full Tang Clan (edited 11-29-2000).]
 
Serg, love your reviews.

The Gunting, I call it a self defense knife not a fighting knife. Haven't seen a pic that fully conveys its' robustness. Having touched the Sifu, they would go well in hand together.

The Ayoob folder is interesting, it still seems to push the original mission of the MOD Razorback; a small blade long enough to enable a vital area thrust. But like Joe, I want grip options not limitations.
 
Originally posted by Sergiusz Mitin:
And here is Peter Herbst C53 (right). It has 3 1/16" (78 mm) long ATS-55 blade and titanium handle, weights 4 oz (113 g). Liner lock. As I already said I like this design a lot and I'm happy it is back. SPYDERCO probably had some technical (?) problems with this project realization. But if they have put this knife into next year catalog this should mention that problems gone and this elegant and stylish CLIPIT should appear soon.
Yes, they had some bad production problems... apparently (too) many were cought in the QC. I have one of the originals and I can say that the liner lock was not very well done. It went all the way to the other side (well a "hair less"), but I must addmit that it hasn't gotten worse after that and seems to hold ok. But then again, I immediately retired in to opening letters and other stuff like that - so it hasn't seen much use. (and definitely no drop-openings!) The edge of the blade was terrible also - but that was easily fixed with DMT aligner, and is now good.
I definitely like to see that knife back in production (I did know it was coming for a long time now
smile.gif
). It's one of the nicest Spydercos ever made. Comparing to the old one, the new one has ATS-55 blade, the old one had 440C (fittingly of course, as it was made in Germany) also the new one is held together with screws whereas the old didn't show any screws (could not be taken apart), also gone is the nice blue anodizing from the grooves - but as we know that would fade with use anyhow
frown.gif

So to sum it up, the old one looks much nicer, but the new one is probably better produced (better for Spyderco, and thus for us) and may have a bit better edge due ATS-55 (not sure though). Nice to see it back!

Hugo.
 
Bram and Jody (I'm not moving to Poland, dang it!), no need to be defensive because I don't share your enthusiasm for non-lethal cutting and control techniques. That's just me, personally. I think that my LEO friends would find it much more useful than I would, because of the constraints they work under.

I like the idea of the Gunting because it's a design driven by purpose. Add to that the fact that it also a practical tool, and the knife has a lot going for it. The fact that I do not adhere to the same school of thought doesn't keep me from appreciating the design. Have you weighed the pros/cons of a fixed blade? Just curious.
Congratulations on getting the Gunting into production, and the accolades you have received.
May have to check out some of your tapes. I'm pretty set in my ways, but it wouldn't hurt me to learn something new
smile.gif
 
Production problems with any knife is a normal thing; after being there and seing what goes into translating a design and functional model into a proto type and then production is amazing...Little glitches stand out like sore thumbs..
Anything SPYDERCO makes in house is correctable right away..OUT of House? well picture someone translating what they think Spyderco said in English into Japanese ( for instance)and then translating into action....then doing it so SPYDERCO then sees it in production and has to change it...just to get back to where they wanted to be in the first place..GADS!

SPYDERCO really does put out GREAT knives..
I'm amazed at the consistent great quality and IF something screws up they are right there to fix it..no lame excuses! Sal & SPYDERCO want great products!

Owen: actually I'm working on a custom, forged, fixed Blade version of the GUNTING..with Frank Olesen. Its a large format knife...with a matching dagger piece..silly me..

SPYDERCO and I have a GUNTING on steroids on the drawing board for the military version..
piercing appleseed tip, bigger blade & handle,as well as other goodies..

The Custom version of the GUNTINGS are high end..each famous maker will do a numbered limited run..of up to #100 pieces..Owen Wood is doing a set and Wes & Pat Crawford are doing a set..signature series of both added to the GUNTING..
Crawford: titanium liners, ATS-34 blade, titanium blosters, sculptured Mircarta handles...file work on inserts
Wood: custom, sculpted Damascus blade, titanium liners,damascus bolsters,(top & bottom) sculpted mammoth ivory handles...
ahhh very cool...

I teach blade & stick work..Over the years I have modified my ways..as I do.. I find people who THINK they know or do know otherways...and I share my way..
The older I get, the more I respect life yet realize that changing fron position of intent must be "NOW"...hence the Kinetic opener..the spoon clip..
As I have gotten older,,my perr group of Slam n jammers is older as well.
At Beach Blade, Howard came over to Terry and me and reintroduced himself..We were all on the old Karate circuit back when..He used to have a large amount of bushy hair back then..now hes bald..his knees ache, his back hurts..his hands are getting stiff from years of punching..
his children, like mine are adults themselves..older than some we teach...
He was excited that I had designed a tool that took all this into account..(yeah..I'm old and a car accident really trashed my back..)
Yes.. Jody and Andy, David, Rachael, Thomas Ben, Andrea..( for example)They re all young Slam n jammers..( Jody and the core group tells me I'm too kind to people when I teach these days...she reminds me it really used to hurt to train with me..)Yes..form follows function..and the design is also based on GROSS MOTOR SKILL usage.for us old guys and the untrained...
I know, I know, most people want to cut..
Look..the hardest thing on the GUNTING...is explaining a new way to look at knives to honest, excited knife people..those with good, strong, formed opinions already, the watershed event that Sal talks of is its ability to be used closed..this is a start of a new concept..its not a limited run experiment..
The Kinetic opener.."upon contact..BAM"
The start of MBC..self-defense tools that are NOT knife fighting implements..not Combat implements..but edged tools that can be used as self defense tools....
again echoing our experiences in using these edged tools...
JAK (James Keating)has the experience..thats the CHINOOK..and other soon to come versions..Laci Szabo has a Folding UUK ( Urban Utility Knife-prototype ( Sal showed it in NYC..)
Mossad Ayoob..folder of his MOD fixed blade..
Mike Janich has a proto type coming..very very hot knife!
Graciela Casillas-Boggs...watch for a better Kerambit from the Lady herself..
Fred Perrin ( YES..Fred Perrin!!!)has a few designs coming to the house of the SPYDER....
MBC is a serious new tack for SPYDERCO..and thewy are using our collective experiences to make the knives a reality..

I didn't just dream up the GUNTING and say " Oh this would be cool" it developed by need..to give me a Balisong that I could carry anywhere..yes, a BALISONG...
take a few steps back and you'll see its a BALISONG by concept, by principle if not by usage...

I have a knife that I and all my students can use..closed and open...
It reflects over 35 years of martial arts input into my head...and my love of steel..

Non lethal to lethal and the shades of grey are part of what I was taught and are part of what I teach in FMA...

SPYDERCO, Sal et al have given me a chance to make it a reality..
To bring my concept of functional training blades to MBC / Spyderco..color coded as guns are..for safety..Mike Janich and I are both big on that...( this was part of my original aborted project elsewhere..)
For many years I used to make training knives..still do sometimes..
no training, no understanding real usage..

Anyways.. Please all of you. don't read emotions into my writings..its to easy to think someone is hurt, angry, defensive or just happy...writing is a reflective art..LOL...

I do enjoy the exchange of ideas and feelings, opinions etc...
And understsand that those that I have trained, trained to teach, those that have used the tools I design in REAL time to save their own lives and others defend me as a lioness defends her cubs..

They say judge a person by their enemies and their friends..I guess I'm blessed for I have quality in both..ROFL....


thank you for letting me ramble on...


[This message has been edited by BRAM (edited 11-29-2000).]
 
Dear Jody,
I'm quite sorry to point you this but misquoting is not the best way to discuss. So I have very, very kind request: please read carefully entire thread and show me where I wrote that to use Gunting someone should be as good in hand to hand combat as Bram Frank?
Maybe this could make clear yourself what you are discussing with? If you are discussing with my conception, impressions or evaluation - I'm here and I'm ready to discuss as far as it will make sense. But if you are discussing with your own misunderstanding or lack of desire to understand - sorry, I can't help you anyway.

Next
but you continue to have negative posts regarding the GUNTING
Really? Let someone correct me if I'm wrong but think I'm mentioning GUNTING in my posts just third time: first was in my report from IWA'2000 in March and here I didn't make any evaluations, second I couldn't find (sorry) and this review is third. Excluding first time I expressed my opinion on GUNTING being asked to do it - please read carefully entire thread again.

Next. Yes, any non-lethal cutting is not for me. My self-defense system is pretty simple and easy to understand. I have explained it numerous times, if you do like I can do this once more:
1. Try to avoid any fight or even brawl for each acceptable cost - run away or give attacker your wallet (if he attacks you to get it) etc. Each fight always can contain the great deal of surprise. You do not know who is your opponent. Are you martial artist? He can be better artist. Are you armed with knife? He can be armed with gun. Are you armed with gun? He can be better shooter or can simply have better luck, etc. No one level of skills or equipment can warranty you win at 100%, on the other hand if fight is started once - the prize is your life or at least health. How many lives do you have? I personally have only one and I had an opportunity to be convinced that in real life health repairing is much more difficult than in computer games.
2. Do not use (or even reach) any deadly weapon (no matter knife or gun) if your life or health is not in danger. No one material or honor issue doesn't justify starting to play with human lives or health (your, opponent's or third person's).
3. But if your (or someone else's) life (or health) is in real danger and you have no choice how to prevent this danger - stop an attacker for each cost, even his health or life cost. He initialized dangerous situation and he is liable for all results. Don't care about his health or even life because this will affect the effectiveness of your counter action. If you will care about opponent's health or you will think what judge will say about your behavior - greatly probably you will have nice funeral instead of nasty lawsuit.

Is this hard to understand? Is this something what each civilized man couldn't accept?
I go armed with deadly weapon a lot of years, so believe me this conception is thought out countless amount of times. Is it right? Honestly I don't know but I don't have any better. Greatly probably it is not the worst because I'm alive so far and I'm not writing from the jail like my favorite American writer William Sidney Porter (known as O'Henry) did.

Polish laws in this matter do not differ from each civilized county's laws. Yes, man is allowed to defend his life with any accessible means. Yes, he (or she) is obligated to do not overdose defensive force and to make attacker minimal possible harm. No, he (or she) is not allowed to aim at attacker's depriving of the life. All this is written on last page of my concealed carry license, I have read this numerous times. So far this is theory written on the paper.
How the court will evaluate your behavior in real life - this is a topic for completely another discussion.

Next.
If you prefer the lethal cuts then maybe you should move to Poland and hang out with Serg.
No people cutting (or shooting) on regular basic occurs in Poland, so you shouldn't send your compatriot to Poland to help me to cut (or shoot) any person I do not like. This is quite strange statement about country you probably know near nothing about.

Last. I think each person is allowed to like particular knife design or to do not like. I'm not impressed with GUNTING design too much and I'm not impressed with philosophy it is based on at all. As result I considered this knife is not for me - it's my right, isn't it?
My main complaint is not GUNTING design as itself and even not philosophy it is based on but the statements that having GUNTING in your hand you can win fight with little training or with no training at all. GUNTING will work in your place.
Excuse me Friends, but it looks like fairy tale. Yes, I can imagine that opponent's body hitting with GUNTING blade spine "horn" can be quite punishing for him. But to hit him you must be fast enough to beat his reaction and strong enough to make your hit a hit but not a touch only. And without knowledge where you should hit to overwhelm him but not only to inflict him more or less hard and without certain skills to hit where you are aiming - your action is senseless. Only training can rise your chances to win fight and no one hardware can change this.

Wow, what a long post! If Mike would found us the contest which post is the longest (with knife giveaway of course!) - think I could be among leaders!
biggrin.gif




[This message has been edited by Sergiusz Mitin (edited 11-29-2000).]
 
Serg, thank you soooo much for that long and drawn out post. I have read your theories on self defense before on one of your long, drawn out posts of the past. So this most recent post was quite redundant.

I have read this entire thread, and just for you I read it yet again. Perhaps you should read your own posts (11/26/00, 8:35 a.m.) At the end of this post you yourself wrote, and I quote "No problem, if someone thinks that if he will buy Bram Frakn designed knife this as itself will make him as good in hand to hand combat at Bram - let him be
smile.gif
"

I have already posted my opinions and comments on this matter. I will not bore everyone by posting it again.

So you have a different opinion, and that is okay. I just do not agree with you. So I guess I am agreeing that we disagree.

You can continue with your if you are going to pull a weapon kill or be killed opinion (that is not a quote, just my abbreviated interpretation of your opinions) and I will continue with my bio-mechanical and de-animation techniques and we will both be happy.

 
In Rodney King's immortal words, "Can we (all) get along?"

I think everybody needs to take two steps back and cool it.

Opinions are a personal thing. If Jody thinks the Gunting is a good self-defense knife, it probably is for her.

If Owen and Sergiusz would rather pass on it; well fine.

Bottom line: We all have different tastes, and opinions and they are all appreciated. But isn't it great that they make so many different types of blades to suit them all?!
smile.gif
 
Sergiusz,
lucidly put. It is apparent you have put much thought into personal protection.

I often wonder that if the "Cult of the Gunting" were instructed to drink the Kool-Aid, they would do so without batting an eye.......
smile.gif
smile.gif
smile.gif
smile.gif


------------------
"The most effective armor is to keep out of range"-Italian proverb
 
Anthony,

What is up with the cool-aid comment. Why am I suprised? Speaking of cults....Aren't you a member of the Rekat Cult?

[This message has been edited by Jody (edited 11-29-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Jody (edited 11-29-2000).]
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top