Spyderco Paysan - lock slip?

There’s some phenomenom where the highest priced knives have issues and it’s not just a matter of lofty expectations.
Look at the Cold Steel 4 Max. The U.S. made version was plagued with problems. They switched production to Italy and had problems with a free spinning pivot and blade centering. At least the price came way down.
 
razor-edge-knives said:
just got a second paysan in, slips just as bad as the first.
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Thanks for the update.

AF said:
There’s some phenomenom where the highest priced knives have issues and it’s not just a matter of lofty expectations.
Look at the Cold Steel 4 Max. The U.S. made version was plagued with problems. They switched production to Italy and had problems with a free spinning pivot and blade centering. At least the price came way down.
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This may be only an issue with knife manufacturers that produce in bulk/mass. Obvious as this sounds, higher-end companies have a better handle on production when it comes to higher-end knives.

To me, QC and execution should be higher, not lower.
 
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So, I've had three of these on my table (due to a shipping mixup). None had substantial slip, and the two of the three that I tested showed no problems even with pretty substantial spine-whacks (the third one was returned, so I wasn't going to do abusive testing). On the one I've been carrying and flipping incessantly, there might be the tiniest bit of lockbar movement when I really try to press the locked knife shut by hand (as in Josh's video), but if it's there at all, it's barely discernable.

This response, of course, isn't to say that this isn't a concern or isn't a phenomenon, but to provide a bit more data. If serious lockup issues are shipping with any regularity, that's no good, and I'll be curious if Spyderco addresses this more directly.
 
NickShabazz said:
So, I've had three of these on my table (due to a shipping mixup). None had substantial slip, and the two of the three that I tested showed no problems even with pretty substantial spine-whacks (the third one was returned, so I wasn't going to do abusive testing). On the one I've been carrying and flipping incessantly, there might be the tiniest bit of lockbar movement when I really try to press the locked knife shut by hand (as in Josh's video), but if it's there at all, it's barely discernable.

This response, of course, isn't to say that this isn't a concern or isn't a phenomenon, but to provide a bit more data. If serious lockup issues are shipping with any regularity, that's no good, and I'll be curious if Spyderco addresses this more directly.
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Glad to hear. I hope this gets sorted out and turns out to be a small minority of the knives. While im throwing out wishes maybe they could cqi a hollow grind in there.
 
NickShabazz said:
So, I've had three of these on my table (due to a shipping mixup). None had substantial slip, and the two of the three that I tested showed no problems even with pretty substantial spine-whacks (the third one was returned, so I wasn't going to do abusive testing). On the one I've been carrying and flipping incessantly, there might be the tiniest bit of lockbar movement when I really try to press the locked knife shut by hand (as in Josh's video), but if it's there at all, it's barely discernable.

This response, of course, isn't to say that this isn't a concern or isn't a phenomenon, but to provide a bit more data. If serious lockup issues are shipping with any regularity, that's no good, and I'll be curious if Spyderco addresses this more directly.
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This is how my example is behaving currently as well.
 
I have had two and neither had slippage, but I also am not spine whacking them and never will. I have, however, tried to force them closed manually as hard as I could and they did not budge.

Just more anecdotal evidence.
 
This is pretty unfortunate to have even the possibility of a lock slip issue out in the wild on a knife of this caliber. Let's face it, this knife at this price is stepping up to compete with some established heavy hitters in the category.

To this point, I've had some mild interest in this knife, waiting a bit for the reports to come in and guys' responses to them. Frankly, I won't give a knife in this price range a second look if it has this kind of blemish on it's record. It just fell off my 'someday' list.

Has Spyderco, here or another forum, spoken up about this particular knife?
 
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Wow, really...? I was fancying this.

An unsafe lock is a no go in any price category, unsafe knives should never pass QC
 
I can't believe people still act surprised that frame locks are susceptible to this. It's 2019 people! :eek: The list is loooong and well documented across production manufacturers, mid-techs, and customs. :confused:

As a lefty I've never been into frame locks anyway, but I never got their wild popularity or reputation as a "hard use" lock. For the most part, it seems like locks that fail even weak spine whack tests aren't much of an issue for people in everyday use though. Maybe that's why their dominance persists? I.e., the massive ZT threads where people were shocked, SHOCKED, and then ultimately didn't care lol.

Not trying to defend the Paysan in particular or say it shouldn't have better QC/tolerances/whatever, but at this point I'm not sure why people expect what they do from frame locks anymore.

Even perfect out-of-the-box specimins will wear over time. Lock stick... unacceptable. Steel inserts may actually make them even more prone to shifting/whack-failure. Late lockup is unacceptable. It developed up and down play. Etc... :rolleyes:

GLTA
 
TRfromMT said:
This is pretty unfortunate to have even the possibility of a lock slip issue out in the wild on a knife of this caliber. Let's face it, this knife at this price is stepping up to compete with some established heavy hitters in the category.

To this point, I've had some mild interest in this knife, waiting a bit for the reports to come in and guys' responses to them. Frankly, I won't give a knife in this price range a second look if it has this kind of blemish on it's record. It just fell off my 'someday' list.

Has Spyderco, here or another forum, spoken up about this particular knife?
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I will wait it out for Josh to see what he will come up with to make this pattern both safer and more acceptable vis a vis these issues if they prove to be more prevalent than just sporadic. However, since one would need to set aside roughly $100 or more (I'm just guesstimating so Josh please feel free to correct me!) for the R.E.K recommended corrections / tweaks (Tony, I know that you're quite handy and very mechanically adept yourself so you will probably do such things by yourself).

I still would not kick this knife outta bad in a proverbial sense, because I would still deem it far more superior in terms of its aesthetics, one piece handle construction and that big & beautiful chunk of S90V to any Insingo which CRK offers, but by the same token I hesitate to be in this knife in the $650 realm with all added up costs which I'm conjuring up. For me, it will have to come down to Josh's final remedial solution and correction strategy plus a great price on one in the secondary market.
 
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Casinostocks said:
I will wait it out for Josh to see what he will come up with to make this pattern both safer and more acceptable vis a vis these issues if they prove to be more prevalent than just sporadic. However, since one would need to set aside roughly $100 or more (I'm just guesstimating so Josh please feel free to correct me!) for the R.E.K recommended corrections / tweaks (Tony, I know that you're quite handy and very mechanically adept yourself so you will probably do such things by yourself).

I still would not kick this knife outta bad in a proverbial sense, because I would still deem it far more superior in terms of its aesthetics, one piece handle construction and that big & beautiful chunk of S90V to any Insingo which CRK offers, but by the same token I hesitate to be in this knife in the $650 realm with all added up costs which I'm conjuring up. For me, it will have to come down to Josh's final remedial solution and correction strategy plus a great price on one in the secondary market.
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While handle work is my particular passion, if it ain't made out of wood, I'm not likely to touch it. I am dumb enough to know that the lock face/blade interface geometry on a folder is possibly the trickiest piece to get right on a folder to make it solid, not stick, not slip, and keep any play out of the system. No way this hack would ever want to attempt an 'instantly warranty voiding' fix on that tricky bit. I'll happily modify other areas, even if it voids warranty, but not this. No way. And I'm sorry, Josh is simply the best in the game and can certainly resolve this, I have no doubt, but no knife should ever NEED this fixed after it leaves the shop, is my take on it.
 
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^ agreed, certainly not a knife of this price and this caliber. Fortunately for those like me who see a great potential in this pattern which is packaged with lots of premium material, we have a master like Josh who can offer remedies and solutions. I'm into Shiors at much higher acquisition cost$ and they don't offer any sheepfoot shaped blade in their premium steel of choice, i.e, the S90V. There's that collab called CannaBis which is now discontinued so good luck finding it under $1400-$1500 now! So for a knucklehead like me, this one is still intriguing ;)
 
inkynate said:
I can't believe people still act surprised that frame locks are susceptible to this. It's 2019 people! :eek: The list is loooong and well documented across production manufacturers, mid-techs, and customs. :confused:

As a lefty I've never been into frame locks anyway, but I never got their wild popularity or reputation as a "hard use" lock. For the most part, it seems like locks that fail even weak spine whack tests aren't much of an issue for people in everyday use though. Maybe that's why their dominance persists? I.e., the massive ZT threads where people were shocked, SHOCKED, and then ultimately didn't care lol.

Not trying to defend the Paysan in particular or say it shouldn't have better QC/tolerances/whatever, but at this point I'm not sure why people expect what they do from frame locks anymore.

Even perfect out-of-the-box specimins will wear over time. Lock stick... unacceptable. Steel inserts may actually make them even more prone to shifting/whack-failure. Late lockup is unacceptable. It developed up and down play. Etc... :rolleyes:

GLTA
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Then tell me how shirogorov with the steel insert and crk with the ceramic ball lock face nailed it.(I’ve had the regular TI lock bar fail before on a small senebza no ceramic like the inkosi or umnum) Both knives would both break before the lock slipped. I’ve tried. Design flaw..End if story.
 
I wonder if tightening the pivot could help.

If someone could get their hands on a few with problems and a few with strong locking to take apart for examination we might learn something.
 
Qbert_72 said:
Yep, same problem. Returned for refund. Very disappointed after waiting nearly 18 months for one.
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What are you doing in this video? Are you trying to close the blade while it's open? At first i thought your thumb was moving the lockbar.



****EDIT

I just tried mine. =(. It definitely shows the same symptoms of yours. I put some cut proof gloves on and tested a bunch of my frame lock knives. The Paysan has a very noticeable shift & Audible noise. You can watch the actual lock torque & move around, I won't go to the extent of spine whacking it though.

My Spydiechef also moves slightly, no audible noise and about 1/4 as bad as the Paysan...

Has anyone sent their Paysan in for warranty yet? I think I may and see if they can come up with anything. I've been meaning to send in one of my NIB PM2s (52100) that has hellacious lock stick when deploying, very loud click when unlocking it.



Regardless of the apparent issue, for the majority of the people who carry their knives would't this issue be null to most given the situations in using their knife? What scenario would it have to be for this lock to fail? Stabbed into a tree and then hanging off it?
 
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