Spyderco Paysan - lock slip?

Hey guys....I hope I’m actually doing this right (I never have posted anything in any forum) just felt compelled to let you all know that my Paysan was returned. My lock slip was so bad that with a pair of gloves and some pressure over my knee I caused the lock to completely fail 3 times in a row. My heart sank....as liquid smooth as it was and as much as I loved the styling, back she went!
 
Kevin S. said:
Hey guys....I hope I’m actually doing this right (I never have posted anything in any forum) just felt compelled to let you all know that my Paysan was returned. My lock slip was so bad that with a pair of gloves and some pressure over my knee I caused the lock to completely fail 3 times in a row. My heart sank....as liquid smooth as it was and as much as I loved the styling, back she went!
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Wait... So you sent it to Spyderco for repair and they sent it back and the lock was failing like that for you...

That's not good if I read that correctly.
 
grumpy514 said:
Wait... So you sent it to Spyderco for repair and they sent it back and the lock was failing like that for you...

That's not good if I read that correctly.
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No I sent it back to the company where I purchased it from with a note explaining the possible danger. I apologize if I was confusing. It’s a shame....I really liked the Paysan design. Hope they figure it out.
 
Kevin S. said:
No I sent it back to the company where I purchased it from with a note explaining the possible danger. I apologize if I was confusing. It’s a shame....I really liked the Paysan design. Hope they figure it out.
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Ahh, that seemed a little misleading but I think I understand what you mean.

For what it's worth, I think that returning it is your best bet. I wouldn't bother sending something like that back into Spyderco for warranty to try to figure out how to fix it. Chances are it will come back in the same sort of condition.
 
marrenmiller said:
Ahh, that seemed a little misleading but I think I understand what you mean.

For what it's worth, I think that returning it is your best bet. I wouldn't bother sending something like that back into Spyderco for warranty to try to figure out how to fix it. Chances are it will come back in the same sort of condition.
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What is this based on? In general it seems that Spyderco is very good about letting people know if a knife is out of spec and then replacing it, or if their expectations were too high. In this case however, I think it would be more likely that it would be replaced. Keep in mind that a knife that goes back to spyderco gets inspected by them. A knife that goes back to the store probably just becomes someone else's problem.
 
gadgetgeek said:
What is this based on? In general it seems that Spyderco is very good about letting people know if a knife is out of spec and then replacing it, or if their expectations were too high. In this case however, I think it would be more likely that it would be replaced. Keep in mind that a knife that goes back to spyderco gets inspected by them. A knife that goes back to the store probably just becomes someone else's problem.
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The knife was probably inspected before it left their factory, but it's still in that state now. It's safer just to return it, because i can say from personal experience that it'll be extremely frustrating to risk them not fixing it.

I've had knives with frame lock slip issues on a number of production knives, and when I sent them back to their manufacturers I have always got them back unfixed. This is based at least on my warranty experience with Zero Tolerance and Microtech, not directly with Spyderco, but at least ZT is known for their supposedly legendary CS. I also have an XM-18 with that issue with Hinderer at the moment and I'm not optimistic at what I'll see when I get it back.
 
marrenmiller said:
The knife was probably inspected before it left their factory, but it's still in that state now. It's safer just to return it, because i can say from personal experience that it'll be extremely frustrating to risk them not fixing it.

I've had knives with frame lock slip issues on a number of production knives, and when I sent them back to their manufacturers I have always got them back unfixed. This is based at least on my warranty experience with Zero Tolerance and Microtech, not directly with Spyderco, but at least ZT is known for their supposedly legendary CS. I also have an XM-18 with that issue with Hinderer at the moment and I'm not optimistic at what I'll see when I get it back.
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Thanks for adding the clarity. I can understand your point, but you also get that its unfair to paint all companies with that sort of brush.
Because frame-lock slip seems to be a relatively common thing across a range of prices and makers, its important to ensure that expectations are reasonable. I doubt a company is going to get in an RMA knife, clamp the blade in a vice and whack the handle with a shot-filled mallet. I would suspect that they would check for tolerance, maybe degrease the locking surfaces, and maybe do a calibrated pressure test of the lock. This is only a guess, I suspect that if the QC process on that aspect was well known, I'd have heard about it. But maybe they don't, maybe there is some other checking that they do. Lock testing is potentially destructive, so every lock on every knife cannot be pushed to failure, that is just not a possibility. Its also possible that a different QC metric is used in production before-hand as a go-no go, and 99.9% that makes lock testing redundant, but 0.1% of the time the knife would still fail. These are things we just don't know.

There are so many factors that come into play when testing if a lock slips or not, that its hard to take someone's word on it, without them having a good descriptor of the conditions in which it slips. Details get inadvertently left out, and in many cases, if guys find later that it was user error, they are often not inclined to admit that. Understandably so. This is why I think its important to communicate directly with the maker rather than passing the knife off to someone else who then has to deal with it. Maybe your retailer is that better person to deal with it, but I doubt it.
 
gadgetgeek said:
Thanks for adding the clarity. I can understand your point, but you also get that its unfair to paint all companies with that sort of brush.
Because frame-lock slip seems to be a relatively common thing across a range of prices and makers, its important to ensure that expectations are reasonable. I doubt a company is going to get in an RMA knife, clamp the blade in a vice and whack the handle with a shot-filled mallet. I would suspect that they would check for tolerance, maybe degrease the locking surfaces, and maybe do a calibrated pressure test of the lock. This is only a guess, I suspect that if the QC process on that aspect was well known, I'd have heard about it. But maybe they don't, maybe there is some other checking that they do. Lock testing is potentially destructive, so every lock on every knife cannot be pushed to failure, that is just not a possibility. Its also possible that a different QC metric is used in production before-hand as a go-no go, and 99.9% that makes lock testing redundant, but 0.1% of the time the knife would still fail. These are things we just don't know.

There are so many factors that come into play when testing if a lock slips or not, that its hard to take someone's word on it, without them having a good descriptor of the conditions in which it slips. Details get inadvertently left out, and in many cases, if guys find later that it was user error, they are often not inclined to admit that. Understandably so. This is why I think its important to communicate directly with the maker rather than passing the knife off to someone else who then has to deal with it. Maybe your retailer is that better person to deal with it, but I doubt it.
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I'm not saying they're all the same. Only that there's a real risk that the knife will be returned unfixed. There's zero chance that you get a bad knife if you return it...

I watched videos of the failures. Those should have been caught at the factory at any price point, especially for a $500 flagship knife. There's no special test needed; you can make them fail with your hands easily. My personal test is just a basic static test with my hands and I've had a bunch of knives fail it, including a Spyderco Military framelock.

It's reasonable to assume that any high end company would fix lock slip if you send it in for warranty repair, but evidently very reputable American OEMs can fail to do so multiple times just for my knives alone, which is what I'm trying to show by telling you what I experienced in the same sort of circumstances. Hence I stand by my assertion that returning the knife is the correct course of action. I don't think Spyderco's warranty and quality departments are good enough to trust with this, based on what I've experienced with them and read from others.
 
marrenmiller said:
I'm not saying they're all the same. Only that there's a real risk that the knife will be returned unfixed. There's zero chance that you get a bad knife if you return it...

I watched videos of the failures. Those should have been caught at the factory at any price point, especially for a $500 flagship knife. There's no special test needed; you can make them fail with your hands easily. My personal test is just a basic static test with my hands and I've had a bunch of knives fail it, including a Spyderco Military framelock.

It's reasonable to assume that any high end company would fix lock slip if you send it in for warranty repair, but evidently very reputable American OEMs can fail to do so multiple times just for my knives alone, which is what I'm trying to show by telling you what I experienced in the same sort of circumstances. Hence I stand by my assertion that returning the knife is the correct course of action. I don't think Spyderco's warranty and quality departments are good enough to trust with this, based on what I've experienced with them and read from others.
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Really not sure how to respond to this, so I'll let you know that I read it, and leave it there.
 
brownshoe said:
Beg to differ, most people, including me, are satisfied with Spyderco's customer service.
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Fake news - not "most people", only most of the ones that talk about it. Do you really think you will hear much negative feedback here or on the Spyderco forum ?
 
awd_xtc said:
Anyone actually send theirs back to spyderco and have the issue fixed?
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Mine is currently there to hopefully be "fixed" or replaced. I'll keep everyone updated when I get it back. It was sent out roughly a week ago. It wasnt as bad as some videos I've seen and I never actually spine whacked it to test the lock but it was audible and noticeable when you move the blade fairly hard. You can see the lock bar moving slightly and you can also hearing it slip off the lock face.
 
marrenmiller said:
The knife was probably inspected before it left their factory, but it's still in that state now. It's safer just to return it, because i can say from personal experience that it'll be extremely frustrating to risk them not fixing it.

I've had knives with frame lock slip issues on a number of production knives, and when I sent them back to their manufacturers I have always got them back unfixed. This is based at least on my warranty experience with Zero Tolerance and Microtech, not directly with Spyderco, but at least ZT is known for their supposedly legendary CS. I also have an XM-18 with that issue with Hinderer at the moment and I'm not optimistic at what I'll see when I get it back.
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I can echo this, based on my warranty experience with ZT. Lock issues like lock rock or slip seem to be too difficult or costly to fix, by the manufacturer (impossible by normal users)
 
Well.... slight update. Not really the news I was hoping for. They gave me TWO options; they stated my knife had arrived and would normally send a replacement right out but they are out of stock currently and it could take "months" to receive another shipment (My guess is they may be trying to fix the issues?)

Option 1: $800.00 in house credit to go towards any of their knives. For a second that sounded great until I started looking at the MSRP prices of all their knives and just how far my "In House Credit" would go. $620.00 for the Drunken (Sells for $409.50 anywhere online) .... I was looking at getting a second one of these but not at that price.

Option 2: Be put on the list and wait "Months" for the Paysans to come back in stock and hope they actually fixed them.


I was not given an option 3, I'am really hoping they will at the very least return my knife free of charge ( I paid shipping + insurance to get it to them)
 
Just curious and not implying anything, but if your knife has lock slip to the point it was a warranty issue, why would you want it back?
 
I would think that if they felt the knife was defective, they won’t send it back. At best, I imagine, the spine would be notched, and it will be sold as a factory second.
 
I wouldn't imagine syderco seconding a knife returned due to lock slip, as far as I was aware they only seconded for cosmetic reasons.
 
gadgetgeek said:
I wouldn't imagine syderco seconding a knife returned due to lock slip, as far as I was aware they only seconded for cosmetic reasons.
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Yeah. That does make sense. So what I wonder do they do with non functional ones. Recycle? Destroy and toss?
 
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