Spyderco P'kal review yet ??

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Jun 12, 2006
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Anyone know of a review of the new Spyderco P'kal from someone that knows Pikal technique? Maybe even from Southnarc? I've searched the net and cannot find anything yet. I'm on the verge of buying one (I'm a Pikal fan) but would sure like to read an informed review first. Besides, it costs almost as much as the Disciple (but MDtactical is out of stock at the moment).

Regards
 
I don't believe the P'kal is actually out yet. Where is it available for actual delivery (not pre-order)?

Southnarc has had great things to say about it. It will undoubtedly live up to his standards as he is collaborating with Sal and Trace on the project. None of them are the kind of guys who would release a product like this before getting it "just right."

To design/produce a folder is a more expensive and time consuming endeavor than to make a fixed blade. Hence the production folder having a price point similar to the mid-tech Disciple.
 
I don't believe the P'kal is actually out yet. Where is it available for actual delivery (not pre-order)?

TOTC

You're right, bladeprince's request for a review is a bit premature. Last word from Spyderco (TazKristi) was: "We are targeting delivery after the first of the year (2007)." It's not available anywhere yet (except as a prototype for SouthNarc and Trace Rinaldi).

David
 
Hi Prince.

I think Think described the situation accurately.

Snarc has a sample of the final test run (pilot). He has approved of it and we are tooling up for the ball bearing cage. The only difference between production and the sample Snarc has is; I'm increasing the length of the wave about .100.

Snarc or Trace are welcome to offer their comments and their reviews based on his sample.

I've also been carrying one daily. I'm getting 100% on deployment. less than 1 second for me, but I've done this sort of thing once before. General reaction is, "would you do that again slow?"

The model is very design specific and has been one of our more difficult design challenges. We've spent hundreds of hours in refinement, engineering and testing. More than 30 mock-ups, protos & pilots.

The market, as far as I'm concerned, is under cover law enforcement professionals. Eric and I take that very seriously. I guess we could have "banged out" a 420J2 Walker linerlock called the "save-your-life", but we would not have felt good about it. (and I'm sure Snarc & Trace would agree)

sal
 
I'm not much for the p`kal style, but if this knife is comfortable in a conventional grip, I'll probably buy one. What's your opinion on normal day to day EDC use, sal?
 
I had a chance to see Sal bring this knife into action. All I could say when I saw it was, WOW!:eek: (and "could I see that again, slower") It was very fast out of the pocket. I would bet that he has done that sort of thing more than once.:D

Bruceter
 
I'm not much for the p`kal style, but if this knife is comfortable in a conventional grip, I'll probably buy one. What's your opinion on normal day to day EDC use, sal?

I'm obviously not Sal but to quote his reply, "under cover law enforcement professionals" will be their main market. If you look at my link of the picture, you will see that there is now good place for your thumb during saber grip. It just doesn't look like it would be very comfortable in plain hammer grip either. This knive is made for ice-pick/edge-in with indentations for a firm grip and a round hilt for "thumb capping". Off couse you could open a package with it or cut up an apple but it sure isn't a work knife in the usual sense. I would become very uncomfortable in a short time (unless you were breaking up blocks of ice ;) ).

I've been following the threads on the development of this knife for years. It is for a very special purpose: Pakal style knife technique. Since I use this technique in my "homemade" style of self defense (different techniques I've put together over the years), it's on my list for sure. But I will also carry a small fixed blade (as I do now) for the daily chores.

Sal can answer more completely. But that's my 2 cents at the moment.

Regards
 
Sounds like a lot of thought and experimantation went into this......how unusual for Syderco ( tounge FIRMLY planted in cheek )......one can only be please this will available for the "good guys"...and those in need of an UC blade.

-Regards
 
Well, I guess I could always just redo the handle myself and create some more contours in the G10.

As per the ball bearing in a cage lock. It looks just like an axis lock to me. Why have the ball in there at all?
 
Hi Prince,

IMO, most knives are not designed to be very ergonomic. The knife designer draws the knife, the engineer engineers the knife. The maker makes the knife. The company sells the knife. Any knife can be held in the hand a number of ways and still use the blade to cut.

Collaboration designs are ususally more ergonomic because the maker actually made a knife and used it before it was submitted to a company.

No flame please. It's just been my experience.

The P'kal fits the hand well in two positions. The two that it was designed to fit. Like most knives, it can be held in any position. The hand is very adaptable.

Hi Martial,

Changes in the pattern would be difficult without hurting the original design function.

The ball bearing functions as a wedge between the tang and the top of the handle. The liners do not perform a function in the locking of the knife. The cage permits access to the ball, but does not perform any of the locking function.

The Axis lock bar wedges between the tang and the liners. Without the liners, it does not work. The Axis patent is based on the rod coming through the liners and using the liners for lock support.

1. We would not want to infringe on another's company's patents.

2. Because it "looks" like an Axis lock to you, means you should probably study the locks more closely. Many locks could "look" like the Axis (Rolling lock, Arc lock, Ultra lock, etc) but function differently. Some say the Compression lock "looks" like a Walker linerlock or a Reeve Integral lock. In reality, they are quite different in their function and the direction of forces.

Hope that helps.

sal
 
Oh, I wasn't implying that it was a copy of the axis lock (and even if it were, I wouldn't care).

Nothing I've said here is anything like a criticism of Spyderco--I know that's how it sounds, but really, it's not. These things are hard to get across in type.

Having owned several BB locks and axis locks, I mean, they seem to be effectively the same thing. I get the differences, but they're not functional differences, as best I can tell. But, on some fundamental level, I suppose, all locks work the same way. They put a wedge inbetween the tang and something else.

The compression lock is a much more significant difference, but I think it would be very difficult to debate that it wasn't derived from the liner lock. I suppose the relevant question is "would it exist without the liner lock?" and so the same is true for the bb lock.

I don't want to give the mistaken impression I care about IP or that what I'm discussing is relating to IP infringement. Merely noting that at this point, the BB lock looks (and while how things look is subjectively debateable, I think it'd be difficult to find an opponent on this) a lot like an axis lock. Comparisons are inevitable.


As per the axis lock requiring liners, I don't see any reason why it couldn't just go against G10, SS or a titanium handle and skip the liner. It does seem that, as a rule, knives with the axis lock have liners though. But that doesn't really say much, Benchmade has always been big on liners.

Pink01.jpg


See? All is well.
 
As per the axis lock requiring liners, I don't see any reason why it couldn't just go against G10, SS or a titanium handle and skip the liner. It does seem that, as a rule, knives with the axis lock have liners though. But that doesn't really say much, Benchmade has always been big on liners.

The thing that makes liners necessary is the spring system that carries the lock. Benchmade tried to make a linerless axis (it was the model 780) with a SS handle and they could not get it out with the quality they expect of their products so they shelved it (don't know if that is a permanent thing or not. Now, if you ran the axis through unlinered G-10 it would lose the extreme strength that makes it such a great lock. The point about the BBL not being reliant on liners is that it is the Backspacer that provides the reenforcement for the ball bearing and not the liners. So, on the new cage BBL on the Pikal it is still the backspacer that supports the ball and keeps it from being pushed out the back. That's the difference. The axis bar is anchored by the sides of the knife while the BBL is anchored by the backspacer. This is why the construction of Axis knives is open behind the lock but a BBL is solid directly behind the lock.
 
I am also anxious to check the P'kal out. I very much enjoy the Spyderco collaborations. Keep up the good work Mr. Glesser!
 
Thanx Max. Good explanation.

We put liners in the model because the designers (S'narc and Trace) wanted liners.

S'narc did a demo at Spyderco for the crew. All were impressed with both S'narc and the piece.

I'ver been carrying a pilot model daily. It's easy to carry and deploys unusually quickly. It does require payng attention to what you are doing. Very sharp point, No "Reverse" gear. I've been carrying it blade forward right side.

sal
 
sorry, by no reverse gear I mean the motion is quick. If you get a body part in the way, it could be uncomfortable.

sal
 
I'ver been carrying a pilot model daily. It's easy to carry and deploys unusually quickly. It does require payng attention to what you are doing. Very sharp point, No "Reverse" gear. I've been carrying it blade forward right side.
sal

I assume the clip can be moved to the other side of the knife. It's a bit tricky to visualize it but I believe that would be necessary for a waved draw into Pakal grip (ice-pick w/edge in).

Regards
 
I've been carrying it blade forward right side.

I presume, sir, that means you have the clip on what, for any other Spyderco, would be the left side. I hope that, for we left-handers, the clip can be moved to the "right" side.
 
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