Spyderco pricing policy

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whoa, I just noticed this thread today.
Welp, after reading this, I thought "wow, a lot of disgruntled people over this and a lot of boycotters." The thought that this is actually only a handful of people at first made me think, "big deal, not like it's going to hurt Spyderco"... then it dawned on me that like me, many others, who don't even post I might add, may have formed a somewhat negative opinion just from this ONE html page. And they'll most likely pass on their opinion to their friends, and on and on....I don't I need to explain exponential growth too much.

My message is this: you big companies(e.g. Spyderco) out there, better find some kind of solution(s) when these things pop up, especially on the web, which, as was mentioned, is a very high profile medium. Cause your response a few posts above me doesn't seem to quell the last 2 posts above this one....


Side note:

My other hobby is photography. When I flip through a camera magazine looking for something new that just came out to buy like that new Nikon F5 or whatever, and I spot an add with "call for price", you know what I do? I turn the page.



[This message has been edited by Jadis (edited 23 December 1998).]
 
Mr. Espinosa's reply shows just how much contempt Spyderco holds its customers.

We are now reduced to being called a ELU instead of a customer.

Does Spyderco now have a ELU Service Department?

 
Darn, but I'm impressed by the caliber and responses of the forum members that posted here.

I hope that this is a wake up call to any and all companies that are alert enough to monitor these pages.

I can't think of a thing to add to these well thought out replies.

My hat is off to my fellow forumites.

Blues

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"Live Free, or Die"




 
Like others have said I have bought a alot
of the spyderco ask little river and Brian
at D-Knives...I like the BM and Spyder as
working knives, I also own the a few customs
and Micro's but cant really use them as workers. If I see call for price I going to another brand that can show me the price.
I think you are making a big mistake.....There are alot of bigtime spenders here so think about that....
 
I had a feeling I was a "ELU".
Sounds like the marketing mentality has taken over Spyderco.
I suggest blister packs hanging in K-Mart or Wal-Mart that show the MSRP with a big red slash through it. The "real" price could then be highlighted in a contrasting color, followed by the "special price".
How about the TV Knife Dealers ?
They obviously deal with the mentality Spyderco assumes is out there.
I'm keeping one of my Tim Wegner Jr. folders because it was a gift. I'm also keeping a Dragonfly because it is a good knife.
The remaining dozen or so Spydercos are history.
Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill McWilliams (edited 25 December 1998).]
 
What about the companies that TOTALLY control pricing by regulating the supply of their products. Case in point, Chris Reeve. Have you ever seen his knifes offered at a discount? I have recently seen the Umfaan offered at $50 below MSRP at a Web dealer. In an E-mail from this dealer, he stated Chris Reeve knives had contacted him about his pricing and were not happy. He was asked to withdraw the offer. Now obviously he had a surplus of these knives but couldn't lower the price to reduce his inventory.
Chris Reeve Sebenzas are a superior product but they keep prices artifically high by the preception of short supply. If you call them and order one direct, it will take 2-3 months, but one can be found at dealers with little trouble. If you want to be one of the favored dealers who are funneled the knives being produced, you better play by their rules. Now is there anything wrong with this?? Are we boycotting them for their policies?? The bottom line is this. If the product is worth the money asked, we pay it and are happy campers. Competition and demand will control the price, OVER TIME.
I would LOVE a Sebenza, but haven't convinced myself YET they are worth the price.
 
First I would like to thank Yekim for his comments,I was so mad I couldn't think straight, but I am not just mad Spyderco I am more mad at everybody that says O'well we can't do anything, me not buying won't hurt them so why should I stop. When sombody gives it to you up the ass you don't thank them, you hurt them the best you can, even if it will not matter. That is what is wrong with this country, NOBODY GIVES A DAM!!
 
Happy Holidays all,

I find this new procedure to be a bit of a nuisance, to the point that I'll purhase knives from other companies. I saw this about two weeks ago at Bullmans, I just thought It was their way though they posted it was Sydercos policy. I just sent them an email. By the way after seeing this at Bullmans I purhased my knife fron "CHAI" Syderco
 
Those who are planning on boycotting Spyderco, do you not eat grain, fruit, vegetables from America?

The US gov 'subsidizes' farmers all accross this nation, doing so fixes the prices at an abnormally high mark.

Specialty companies of all sorts, backpack makers, tent makers, everybody does this.

Benchmade did it a year ago, they have experienced no negative effects, everyone still has the Axis and Pinnacle on their wish list.....

I am not saying that Spydie is price fixing, they are not, they are simply asking their dealers to not advertise their deals, so call.

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Marion David Poff fka Eye, one can msg me at mdpoff@hotmail.com

Patiently waiting for the Spyderco SpydeRench, Lum Chinese Chopper Folder, Rolling Lock, Benchmade M2 Axis, M2 Axis AFCK, M2 Pinnacle and the REKAT Escalator and Pat Crawford Design.

"The victorious Warrior wins first and then goes to war, while the defeated Warrior goes to war and then seeks to win" Sun-Tzu














 
I don't know, maybe I am dense or something. What is the point of not listing the price on the web site and making me take the time to send for an email price? We are going to get the same price, aren't we. Why put us to so much trouble. We all know that we surf all the knife dealers and check on their pricing. I for one have pruchased my last Spyderco. What a pain.

John
 
Of course, you could always go to Spyderco's web page and see a lot of overpriced knives.
Spyderco was a good-quality, home-grown company that started with a innovative idea.
That idea would have never caught on unless consumers (ELU's) showed their friends why that funny hole and ugly hump was there.
Accordingly, Spyderco was always a consumer driven company until lately.
I am a consumer with dollars in my pockets for things I find attractive.
I have never been, nor shall I ever be, one of their ELU's.
The altitude has obviously gone to their heads.
I quit buying Benchmade when they got wierd too.
This is a "redneck" reaction. Sorry, that's just me.
BTW, I am a salesman. I'll hang it up the day I lose respect for the consumer.
Later, Bill
 
Manufacturers are having great difficulty understanding how to handle the borderless (as in country) and storefrontless nature of InterNET commerce. Retailers with storefronts are voicing complaints about "unfair" competition from InterNET resellers because of overhead differences. Some also attempt to paint InterNET resellers as having lackluster or nonexistent customer service. The truth is out there
smile.gif
.

I also am a fountain pen user and frequent special pen lists such as zoss. This exact same issue came up when a combination storefront and InterNET dealer contacted several high end pen manufacturers such as Pelikan about an upstart InterNET dealer who was offering very aggressive pricing. These manufacturers or their designated sole USA distributors pulled product from this InterNET dealer hiding behind a policy of not wanting to have product available without the reseller having a storefront. They made the exact same claims that Spyderco has done in their defense. Much of which sounded like attempts to fix pricing in the name of leveling the playing field between electronic and traditional resellers. Boycotts and outrage were posted on the Net; and e-mails, letters and phone calls flooded the manufacturers and distributors. This is an ongoing story.

The overall perception manufacturers have is that InterNET sales are a small part of their market penetration. That is undoubtedly true now, but in the near term a balance between the traditional and the electronic will occur as more and more folks learn to use the InterNET for point of sale. Concepts about regional or country sole distributorships as well as pricing policies must undergo change in the future BECAUSE THEY WILL NO LONGER BE WORKABLE! The PARADYMES ARE SHIFTING. Sales are going to go to the honest resellers who offer the best service and support to their customers... borders and sole distributorships don't matter when we view this in a global context.
The smart folks have mostly been the smaller manufacturers who have embraced the InterNET strategically and are seeing increased profitability and market share as a result. Some of the big names in retailing have also been smart and offered online ordering and web site catalogs. Their prestige and presence continue, be it at the local mall or on the Net.

The Spydercos and Pelikans need to reexamine what is happening in the global marketplace. For unless they offer a product embodying both exceptional quality and value in the face of competition, the market will move on to others who have adjusted to the new realities. Alvin Tofler wrote a book which touches upon what we're seeing.

Spyderco is suffering from "Future
Shock" and has adopted a reactionary
mode instead of realigning its strategic
vision with the emerging global economy.

No doubt we'll see more of this until the evolutionary process matures enough to hurt the bottomline. But there is no doubt in my mind that the true visionaries, be they in manufacturering, distribution, or retail sales, will emerge in the next few years as industry leaders. Many will be new names as some of the older, now established, will have forgotten that sage counsel about leading from the front or getting out of the way before they're run over.

Personally I invite the representatives of Spyderco to honestly address the issues set before them about how they feel the emerging global economy (being brought about by telecommunications and the Net) is being addressed by their strategic planning. Leave behind all the defensive rhetoric and honestly face the future. Develop a game plan that maximizes this new frontier. To be a tad crude gents, pissing up a rope will only get you wet!

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-=[Bob]=-

Bald is beautiful! Rub a dome for luck today!




[This message has been edited by bald1 (edited 24 December 1998).]
 
I LOVE it! This is really great!
Being an engineer, I really enjoy and respect the Dilbert cartoons, and consider this the definitive management critique in the world at this time. It's really a pleasure to see Dilbert in action!
1) Use funny terms for commonplace things - it makes people think there must be SOME sort of thought going on there (ELUs instead of customers or users).
2) After you get a negative reaction to something, string some words together in future-speak and say what you said first really means something else again entirely. But, since the original policy was probably promulgated by someone WAY high in the company, you can't ever say 'Oops, we screwed up.'
3) Pretend the whole thing is for the good of the customer, and string some weasel-words together to try to prove it, re: the 'customer service' section of the Spyderco comment. As we all know, on this forum and rec.knives, we quickly find out which dealers provide good service, and there clearly is NOT a direct relationship between price and good reputation. (By the way, have you ever noticed that when you get a letter from your bank or utility company starting 'For your convenience . . .', you'd better grab your socks, beaause you're about to get %^^&*$$#)

And, finally, I've seen a reference by Yekim that this is a Communist technique, and another poster mentioning socialism. I'll have you know that price-fixing is a basic characteristic of good old American capitalism, as exemplified by that fine old American company, Standard Oil. Unfortunately, it only works well when there's little competition, and as of right now, there's a LOT of knives competing with Spyderco for MY money.

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All God's critter have holes? Bill McWilliams you rock!!!!I want to buy you a cold one for that post.

I agree with everybody that is upset with this. We can't even post our prices on our web page for getting e mails from some company or distributor complaining. We finally just shut the page down so we could work out all the differences. If we didn't have walk in traffic, or "real" jobs, would be out of the knife biz.
I thought this would bite Benchmade in the butt, but it doesn't seemed to have. Our whole point was to have the lowest prices on everything, because we had so little overhead. We are considering making a "buying club" that would directly e mail customers on prices. Any suggestions?

PS - I am an MBA I can tell you that this is a form of fixing. Why not sell the knife for what the market fixes the price at?

Rude Water Herring
Buyer and Writer for End of the Trail Knives
www.knivesonline.com
 
Dear Spyderco:

Today I recieved an EMail forwarded to me from my Martial Arts instructor, Dale Seago. Dale runs the San Francisco chapter of a small organization known as the Bujinkan, a VERY traditional Japanese art that is unique in having knife combat skills as part of the core curriculum - as a result, it attracts knife knuts like Pizza Hut attracts the obese.

While a newbie to this scene, I'm not new to knives. I've personally spent $1300 (owww) on cutlery this year, all through the net.

So let me show you Dale's EMail, with addresses blanked but otherwise untouched:

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Jim, you prob'ly have the most comprehensive knowledge here: can you give Gregg a hand? -- Dale.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:28:28 -0500 (EST)
From: gregg xxxxx <gxxxxx@mindspring.com>
To: (Dale's email address)
Subject: Knife websites

Dale,

I've heard of a couple of knife websites in the dojo and wondered if you could pass along the URLs. (Haven't had luck matching my memory to search engines.)

There was something like Pioneer Knife and another called Smoky Mountain. That Benchmade 350 you (ed: reference to Dale's blade) have made an impression.

Have a great Christmas.

gregg

----------------------

Jim March again. Needless to say I was able to hook Gregg up just fine. I warned him about PVKnife, mentioned a sale Smoky is having and pointed out a few other dealers worth noting, such as James (Chai Cutlery) Mattis's habit of hand-inspecting pieces before shipping.

In case you need it completely spelled out, us "Internet knife junkies" may indeed be a bunch of bargain shoppers but pissing us off is a BAD IDEA.

Your "make 'em run around digging up prices" policy has indeed personally pissed me off.

Morons.

Jim March
 
My birthday is in a couple of months. I will be getting an EDI. Will Fennel calls me a customer, or he calls me by name. I really can't imagine Will Fennel refering to me as an acronym. To Spyderco: Happy High Christian Holy Day Observed Post Winter Soltice(HHCHDOPWS). To everybody else, Merry Christmas, hope you got what you wanted

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A free people ought not only to be armed but disciplined;
George Washington Jan 8,1790--There can be no doubt about the Second Amendment.


 
There's probably no way to explain to a bunch of Internet knife knuts a pricing policy that's likely to cost them money, and have them say "Thank you!"

But boycott? Anybody have any idea what percentage of Spyderco's total sales goes to hard-core Internet knife forum regulars? Or Gerber's? Or Henckel's? The question is, rather, if a knife that sells for $100 in the mall store, $62.50 at the deepest web discount place I found today, $70 at one of the more information-rich web sites, or $80 from a couple of established operations large enough to have their own exclusive models, is worth $80 to you if that's the lowest price you can find in print. Or maybe if it's worth $80 with free UPS ground and possibly some other tangible or intangible goodie thrown in.

Is the difference between 65% plus shipping and 80% with shipping a deal breaker? It may depend on the size of the order, of course. Expect to see sales over $X come with a free whatsit. I'll drop the price a bit when the condition of the box proves that it's been at a knife show and fondled by a bunch of strangers, even though the knife is still virgin, mostly.

It isn't just Spyderco, and it isn't just knives, where a dealer who wants to be on speaking terms with the manufacturer may not want to be the most agressive of discounters. In the case of some small outfits, like Chris Reeve or William Henry, who sell directly to the "ELU" as well as to dealers, dealers don't undercut their source. In the case of larger manufacturers whose products are in stores, ir they want to keep their products in stores - and not just Mammoth Mart type places either - they will want to do something or something else to discourage deep discounting by mail order. If Spyderco wants their products to become primarily mail order products, they'll do what some computer companies have done, and do it themselves, eliminating the distributor, the mall store, the ammo and bait store, the gun show table, and eccentric web dealers like me and the other guy.

So, if you want to deal with the sales clerk who lets you stand at the counter and talk knives and handle 17 specimens of seven models before you pick out the one you want, or you want to deal with someone who has a really cool web page, then all-out price war isn't entirely in your interests, though we all like to get a real bargain now and again.

We should also keep a sense of proportion. Some of us get outraged over knife company sins - quality control problems here, less than original design there, distribution and pricing policy in the other place - while CNN News playing in the background here is reporting high crimes and misdemeanors, violence and oppression, and nastiness to the poor, the widow, and the stranger. That's why I like to be "sweet reason" around here, and do a little fire and brimstone over in the Politics forum.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com

 
A couple more thoughts:

There are other ways manufacturers go about keeping discounting within limits. Microtech, for example, sets its wholesale price close enough to retail that you're not likely to see a $200 Microtech on sale for $125. Other outfits are just picky about what dealers they'll sell to. I haven't seen Wusthoff-Trident knives in distributor catalogs, and when I inquired about buying them wholesale from the company, I found out the they have a moratorium on accepting new Internte dealerships, due to aggressive discounting, and so that's why I'm not carrying the line. Watch the Robinsons-May ads for sales on high-end German kitchen knives.

I do have one issue to take with Spyderco's post here: The usage of the term, "fly by night" with respect to unidentified dealers needs clarification. I don't know who should consider themselves rightfully chastised, or who should consider themselves insulted.

Not all aggressive discounters are fly by night, and not all fly by night dealers are aggressive discounters. If you don't make a habit of breaking promises, and you pay your taxes, you're not a fly by night dealer.



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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com

 
Jim,
It's not so much a formal "boycot".
Its just that Spyderco is no longer attractive to me.
I used to be madly in love with Jane Fonda.
I've seen Barberella dozens of times and its among the most moronic movies ever made. I just liked the way she looked.
Then one day I saw her laughing and chatting with NVA troops while sitting on a howitzer aimed at US soldiers.
She has never looked the same since.
Later,Bill
 
Not everyone has access to a storefront. Personally, as far as I know, there are no knife stores within 30 miles of my house.Finding all the internet dealers a couple of years ago was a godsend to me.First Benchmade and now Spyderco wish to make my knife buying experience more (much more!) time consuming and less enjoyable.I take this very personally.Although my boycot's have had no effect on their business, when someone makes your life more difficult I've got to do something.Looking ahead to where I believe the internet is going in terms of growth,Benchmade and Spyderco's actions are probably like using sandbags to control a tsunami. Mike K. (the "quiet one")
 
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